Should we or Shouldn't we buy Lagoon 380 or 400?

[TOT]

We purchased a L450 but the L400S was my next choice


SV TOT
Wayne 😃

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by vtomanov

you may have better experience then me then.. I have just charter cats.. never owned one...

my experience is based on a wind 45 ( 54 gusts ) going from the south towards Tinos island ( Tinos town) in Greece against the wind - actually did not managed to get into the harbor on full throttle the cat stays on same place and was really awful I had to turn back and go with the wind and hide in Syros/Ermopoly

and once again from Skiathos to Tassos with wind about 30kts and relatively big waves with wind from the back when on the top of the wave the cat is valiantly try to turn side ways and it is difficult top keep it on direction almost every other wave... but managed to get to the destination...

in the end I'm just a half-boat sailor most of the time.. I may not just be good enough to handle properly the cat - e.g. the problem may be with me and not with the cat, but I will not want a cat anymore to be honest...

It is possible that you can't motor a _charter_ cat into anything above 25kn and there is a simple reason for that. I have seen more than one charter cat with throttle limits set to allow only 2200 or 2500 rpm in neutral, much less when going into a headwind.
But thats not a problem of the cat, it's just a charter company trying to reduce engine wear at the cost of safety.


But now its no longer 25-30kn but 45-54kn. Different story...

So you stood in front of Tinos harbour and could not get in against the wind blowing from NE. Being close to land seas were flat.
And the you turn around, sail the boat SW with the wind through steep following seas towards a lee shore ...

Why did you expect that you could maneuver inside Ermoupoli harbour which is pretty exposed towards NE?



BTW: Sailing dead downwind on a cat is the best & smoothest point of sail. Easy motion, like running on tracks and easily handled by the autopilot. In 30kn its also fast...
If the seas arrive at an angle there is somtimes a jerky motion but that is just two hulls living in different wave cycles. Nothing violent or dangerous, just a somewhat strange motion. The course will correct itself a moment later as the wave passes if you don't fight it.


@OP: Both are good boats, of course not the best boats available but really good value for money. Choose the one you like more, they are pretty different in terms of style (the 380 design is older and it shows in the round salon design).

[Privleoplag]

I'm curious.. do both of these boats have access from both sides of the helm... seems to me that when I was looking for a boat to buy, the 380 could only be accessed from the cockpit side. Am I remembering correctly?

[monte]

The 380 can only be accessed from the side deck. There is usually a stainless rail to prevent you from toppling into the cockpit. The 400 has steps from the cockpit so the helm can be accessed from both sides. Excuse the mess

[Privleoplag]

Thanks for that. I knew there was something about the helm on the 380 I didn't like.

[zeehag]

charter one for a weekend. sail it, anchor it, do everything. big winds little winds--do it all.
then, if you like it, buy it.
if not-- go onward.
no one but you know what you like and not like.
we are each different.
have fun with the learning and sailing and comparing. that was a fun decade for me ~~~ sailing opb.

[a64pilot]

Zee has an excellent point, I think you could find both of those boats in the Charter fleet, may not be owners versions, but you could tell a lot I think.

[zeehag]

the difference between charter and owners models are the stickers and a couple gee gaws.
nothing affecting handling of boat. is called appearance group.
mebbe owner gets a bigger anchor....

[vtomanov]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Hmm... originally you said it couldn't motor against 25-30 knots. Now it's 45 - 54 knots. Can you see there's a bit of difference there?

I'm confessing : That's correct 25-30 for against wind is exaggerating from my side... - just personal feeling not actual experience. The actual experience was 45 with very occasional gusts to 54...

btw: in the same time when I had issues a basic Bavaria 40 was able to get in the Tinos harbor and moor

in the end it is personal feeling.. I really like the accommodation , but will not go out again if I see forecast for force 6 on a Lagoon ( exactly the forecast when I hit the big winds and waves - definetly was not a experience that I want to have again

I may be just not good enough with the cats etc. but this is my feeling

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the difference between charter and owners models are the stickers and a couple gee gaws.
nothing affecting handling of boat. is called appearance group.
mebbe owner gets a bigger anchor....

And a bigger cabin. And maybe bigger engines. And maybe better sails...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the difference between charter and owners models are the stickers and a couple gee gaws.
nothing affecting handling of boat. is called appearance group.
mebbe owner gets a bigger anchor....

The difference is in the internal hull layout/number of cabins.

[monte]

Maybe some confusion here between the terms.
A charter boat generally means a boat in charter or ex charter. Usually with 4 cabins and usually fairly well specced for living aboard for a week or so (generator, aircon etc)
An owner boat generally means one bought for private use, maybe specced more for extended cruising than weeks aboard, but not always. Maybe specced for better sailing performance (folding props, square top main, downwind sails etc) but not always. Maybe some items not generally found on charter boats, such as decent solar systems and larger battery banks. Maybe better maintained and less engine hours than an ex charter boat, but...not always..
An owners version generally refers to one that has 3 cabins instead of 4, and usually two or three heads in lue of 4, giving the owner a larger living space in the 'owners hull'
Occasionally an owners version will be in a charter fleet, but the economics of bums in berths means they are pretty rare.
Most charter boats are privately owned and some are very well specced for cruising as the owner wants to cruise on the boat during or after the charter period (usually 4-5yrs) Some charter yachts are very basic, but nowadays most charter companies have a big input into what the boat needs to have to be included in their fleet. Usually aircon and generators are required.

[faa50]

Thanks for all the input from everyone. Its giving us a lot to consider and research. In comparing and contrasting the 380 to 400 (owners version) there seem to be some design advantages with the 400. Specifically in the galley area, cockpit and access to the helm. Hardtop vs canvas is also a nice feature although I understand on newer 380s a hardtop is provided.

Am I missing something other than the obvious additional 2' width and 1 1/2' length? The 400 seems as if can be handled by a couple?

I've read the threads on the forum regarding saildrives and researched the units from Yanmar. Not finding a pattern of problems with the boot seals but wondering if I'm missing something?

We sure are "itching" to go sailing. Dirt dwelling is growing old!

[monte]

Nope, you pretty much have it there. Both good cats and both easily managed by one. No inherent flaws or problems with either. The 400 does have quite a bit more payload and weight to go along with the additional area, but sails on a par with the L380. Maintainance and mooring costs on both are similar.

[Independence05]

FAA50,
We have owned our Lagoon 380 for over a year and we love, love, love her! We feel that we have enough galley space. We have the regular refrigerator and we recently added an Engel Freezer under the cockpit seating. 2 heads is plenty - I think 4 is overkill for most couples and families (plumbing is not my favorite so more is not merrier for me!) She did not have a hardtop but we added one after purchase. I am certain the 400 is very lovely too!
Lucy S/V Independence
The Larks of the Independence