SMG 50, its Like they were Reading my Mind

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Calm down Therapy, that almost sounds orgasmic. But on the practical side, this is what happens when they lower it under sail, their words..............

"Yesterday we had at least a technical highlight. In the east wind of 20 + knots, we were able to (current recovery from the electric motor, regenerative braking test really sleep). The result: With ten knots showed the ammeter 18 ampere charging current to the battery bank at 54V. That's pretty much a kilowatt."

OOOHHHHH.

But "they" are selling it right?

But the ability to lift drive "units" clear of the water can not be understated. It is such a relief to be able to do that.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by downunder

Have you had any feedback from someone actually using the FP electric drives other than on the SMG website? haven't been able to find any.

Whilst the smaller FP gensets don't have a good rep havn't hear any info on their larger gensets(20kw).

No first hand experience with FP. Just going by the negatives posted on this forum about their AC gen-sets. I can't even find out if the FP 20KW gen-set is a regular, heavy, AC unit that requires it to be run at an rpm divisible by the AC frequency, i.e. 3600 or 1800 for 60 Hertz or 3000 or 1500 for 50 Hertz, or if it is an efficient DC unit that is much lighter and rpm independent, used for bulk battery charging? I hope it is the latter.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

This is what I've learned, Richard Malits is selling his "Number One" as his new yacht, the latest SMG 50plus is getting delivered to the Adriatic Sea soon.

So it looks like #4 is being built. Richard did enjoy "Number one", so much that he wants another spec'ed for his tastes.

At the Cornati Cup 2009, Richard Malits achieved at his first race ever, first place with incredible advance in total time compared to the other attending catamarans. He also established his personal record of more than 19 knots at this race (at 25-28 ktn wind, beam reach, on flat water). Even more surprising for all attendances was the sailing performance of "Number One" close to the wind. At close reach course the SMG catamaran even overtook fast monohull yachts.

I'm guessing (correct me if I'm off base) that Mr. Malits likes to enjoy his boats in the VAT free areas and upon selling a boat he has to take into consideration the extra costs involved for the buyer.

DO,

Do you know if Richard Malits has ordered his new vessell with same electric drives and do you know what his experience has been with them??

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by downunder

DO,

Do you know if Richard Malits has ordered his new vessell with same electric drives and do you know what his experience has been with them??

Good question, considering now SMG is offering straight diesel drive as an option. I could not find the specs on "Do-re-mi", so I emailed Mr. Malits and asked how he liked his EP on "Number One" and if he was using EP on his current boat.

[deckofficer]

No reply from Richard yet, but "Number One" didn't languish long at that reduced price.

SOLD
SMG 50 Plus Catamaran for Sale

[Flight Risk]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

This is what I've learned, Richard Malits is selling his "Number One" as his new yacht, the latest SMG 50plus is getting delivered to the Adriatic Sea soon.

So it looks like #4 is being built. Richard did enjoy "Number one", so much that he wants another spec'ed for his tastes.

At the Cornati Cup 2009, Richard Malits achieved at his first race ever, first place with incredible advance in total time compared to the other attending catamarans. He also established his personal record of more than 19 knots at this race (at 25-28 ktn wind, beam reach, on flat water). Even more surprising for all attendances was the sailing performance of "Number One" close to the wind. lose reach course the SMG catamaran even overtook fast monohull yachts.
.
I'm guessing (correct me if I'm off base) that Mr. Malits likes to enjoy his boats in the VAT free areas and upon selling a boat he has to take into consideration the extra costs involved for the buyer.

This boat either disproves everything every performance multihull designer has built or it will not perform as claimed. First the main has no roach and is tiny smaller percentage of total sail area than even the old Prouts. Worse yet not only are there no boards there are no mini keels. That's right nothing this boat should go to weather about as well as a wharram( I love wharrams but any honest wharram sailor will be the first to admit a beam reach over the ground is hard on it in a wharram.) If this boat does some how perform to weather it has literally disproved everything the best multihull designers believe.

[Southern Star]

Flight Risk, where did you get the details about the sailplan/underbody of the SMG 50? I checked out their site and it listed the main as 50 sq. m. and the jib as 48 sq. m. - certainly not suggesting a main proportionally smaller than on a Prout, nor even a number of monohulls with more typical single masthead rigs. The photos of the main would tend to confirm this and, while it does not have a 'flat-top' main that many now prefer for light air (and many despise in heavy air), there is nevertheless some roach and a fairly high aspect ratio. The latter should certainly help in terms of performance.

As to the lack of LAR keels, that is certainly true. However, the one admittedly dark photo that I could find of the underbody (from the gallery for Do Re Mi) showed an underbody not dissimilar to the one employed on the 12 meter Intrepid - a virtually 'full keel' with a smooth transition from hull to keel, followed by a gap aft with a spade rudder. When Intrepid was designed in 1967, fin keels were already becoming successful in racing (witness the Cal 40). While there is little doubt that a deep fin keel will typically outperform a full keel to windward, I suspect that the underbody as designed might have advantages over the shallow and short LAR keels employed on most catamarans, even though the wetted surface would be higher. If cats employed deep fins that would, of course, be another matter. Whatever the case, certainly one cannot equate that photo with the keel-less underbody form of a Wharram.

I also suspect that the A-frame rig might permit better tension on the forestay than the typical rig on cats today (a single mast without backstays). If so, this would also contribute to windward performance.

I obviously cannot confirm the performance claims for the boat and indeed, take all such claims with a grain of salt. However, while it is clearly a departure from the norm, I do not believe that this proves, or disproves anything. All in all, a very interesting design even if (and perhaps because) it dances to the beat of a different drum.

Brad

[deckofficer]

Brad,

Very well put. I have said it more times than I can remember, if naval designers did not have to cater to such a conservative market to keep food on their family's table, they would be exercising the state of the art they learned in school.

I'm a former owner of a Cal 40 and still laugh about the early comments on that boat.

[FSMike]

deckofficer -
You and everybody else interested in creative thinking should visit chriswhitedesigns.com and check out the new Atlantic 47 cat. A new type of sail rig that looks really interesting, and adjustable trailing flaps on the keels to improve windward ability. Chris White pretty much invented the forward cockpit with his cats, and nobody ever accused his boats of being slow.
Now where did I put that lottery ticket.

[deckofficer]

Thanks, always been a fan of Chris White and have seen on the Internet (not in person) the Atlantic 47.

[Flight Risk]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Flight Risk, where did you get the details about the sailplan/underbody of the SMG 50? I checked out their site and it listed the main as 50 sq. m. and the jib as 48 sq. m. - certainly not suggesting a main proportionally smaller than on a Prout, nor even a number of monohulls with more typical single masthead rigs. The photos of the main would tend to confirm this and, while it does not have a 'flat-top' main that many now prefer for light air (and many despise in heavy air), there is nevertheless some roach and a fairly high aspect ratio. The latter should certainly help in terms of performance.

As to the lack of LAR keels, that is certainly true. However, the one admittedly dark photo that I could find of the underbody (from the gallery for Do Re Mi) showed an underbody not dissimilar to the one employed on the 12 meter Intrepid - a virtually 'full keel' with a smooth transition from hull to keel, followed by a gap aft with a spade rudder. When Intrepid was designed in 1967, fin keels were already becoming successful in racing (witness the Cal 40). While there is little doubt that a deep fin keel will typically outperform a full keel to windward, I suspect that the underbody as designed might have advantages over the shallow and short LAR keels employed on most catamarans, even though the wetted surface would be higher. If cats employed deep fins that would, of course, be another matter. Whatever the case, certainly one cannot equate that photo with the keel-less underbody form of a Wharram.

I also suspect that the A-frame rig might permit better tension on the forestay than the typical rig on cats today (a single mast without backstays). If so, this would also contribute to windward performance.

I obviously cannot confirm the performance claims for the boat and indeed, take all such claims with a grain of salt. However, while it is clearly a departure from the norm, I do not believe that this proves, or disproves anything. All in all, a very interesting design even if (and perhaps because) it dances to the beat of a different drum.

Brad

First the smg 50 on yacht world has 42sq M main, the jib has 45 sq M. The new build boat specs you are looking at has the same size A frame but in an attempt to make the boat sail they added about 5 feet to the foot and brought the mains clew back to a targa totally distorted main but they were trying to make the boat move so they added cloth the only place they could with in the same size A frame.

Secondly, there is no such thing as a roller furling main with decent roach that is by definition the problem with them even for traditional monohulls without full batten mains. When you compare it to a full batten main it is like a bed sheet.

Third you talk about the hulls by comparing them to a full keeled mono? I don't even know how to respond.

There is a reason performance cats have huge full battened mains and deep dagger boards. It is not because they make things simpler, they don't they add huge loads and handling problems for crew, they chop up the interior space, yet it is the way you get high end performance.

The below line hull shape is identical to a wharram if you take the time to look.

[Flight Risk]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Considering the last two used induction cook tops, not much to do. My dinghy will still be electric and I would make do with what they are using as far as the 20KW Fisher-Panda (not a big fan) but since propulsion is 48 volts, would like a combined inverter/propulsion battery bank. I'm a big fan of 48 VDC inverters, instead of drawing 120 amps on the DC side for the running of a major appliance, at 48 volts, only 30 amps.

The SMG 50 for sale is 400 volts AC!!! Does that scare anyone else?
The new SMG is 48 volts DC.

[Sand crab]

It's not the volts it's the amps. That 12v car battery will kill you too.
There has been a comment about conservative designers and their clientele. However there is nothing conservative at all about racers. I would like to know how many race sailboats are currently equipped with A-Frame masts. I'll bet the answer is zero to almost zero. And are they winning races? If I was putting a million plus into a race boat then you can bet I would be going for anything that would give me the edge. But virtually no one is using this marvel at all. Why?

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Flight Risk

The SMG 50 for sale is 400 volts AC!!! Does that scare anyone else?
The new SMG is 48 volts DC.

Where did you find info on 400 VAC?

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

It's not the volts it's the amps. That 12v car battery will kill you too.
There has been a comment about conservative designers and their clientele. However there is nothing conservative at all about racers. I would like to know how many race sailboats are currently equipped with A-Frame masts. I'll bet the answer is zero to almost zero. And are they winning races? If I was putting a million plus into a race boat then you can bet I would be going for anything that would give me the edge. But virtually no one is using this marvel at all. Why?

Bob, your an old salt and know that race boats have to pass muster with their self imposed rules. Maybe I'm out of touch, but is there a truly open class without handicaps?