The best 50' liveaboard/extended cruising cat?

[downunder]

You won't get a better owners cabin than this. And it still a fairly slippery 12:1 hulls.
Saloon at 6x4 m is larger than and 50ft production cats.

Photo Gallery

[Catastroff]

Hello, you should buy a flat ! Trust me, no worrying about sail drive and you can get a 3 meters large bed, so why spend so much money in a boat if you only look to feel like at home. (and more, a flat does not move...it is much more confortable than a cat !!)

catastroff

[Sea Frog]

I already have 2 flats so I don't need any more. If you read my first post, you will understand why I need a wide berth. We are co-sleeping with our child (and probably there will be more children in the future). He never had a bed of his own, and he will only when he is old enough and ready to go (this phase usually happens at the age of 5 to 7). Sleeping with someone in a narrow bed is a PITA, even without children. When there are 3 people each preferring his own "space" to move around in a sleep, it dictates a size. While I know that majority of people do not approve things like "co-sleeping" and long-term breastfeeding, and can not understand why it is done, being a professional psychologist I know just too well how important it is for a development of a psychologically healthy person, and what damage will be done to a child if he is deprived of it. So, this is a choice that we made knowing exactly what we are doing and why we are doing it.

I know that many people like to "overcome" "difficulties", and I know why exactly they do it, and I don't have anything agains that, in fact when I was yonger, I did it myself and liked it, but now I do not have to prove anything to anyone including myself. I can live in limited space and with limited "features", but I don't see why I should. That's why I will try to get as comfortable boat as I can within my limits. The days when I happily sailed 30' ers with nothing inside, are gone. They were fun, but I just don't need that stuff anymore.

This being said, I do not have anything against anyone doing whatever he wants in whatever limited "circumstances" he wants, it is a choice of everybody. I made mine. Thank you.

[Catastroff]

Hello sea frog, i do not come again on the fact that i am tired to read post of people asking for the better boat for their needs...Just check it by yourself and when you fall in love with one then you can ask other people with same boat what they think about this model before you buy it. (you may say i would better not read posts i don't like and you would be perfectly right !)
But what you say about kids sleeping with parents is an interresting point of view, even if it is not mine, and even if it is not the right place for this. Why do you think your kids would be bettter in the future by sleeping with parents) ?? You have to raise your children so that they can be independant one day...you are going to disturb them during they are sleeping, with result that you have no more private life/intimity and for him a bad night with bad sleep...I hope you got steel nerves to preserve your relation ship with your partner. I have no lesson to give on that subject (nor any other subject) but, i raised my daughter and she is now 20, and very healthy and good minded (don't know if these are the right terms, my english is not good enough for this kind of discussion maybe...) As soon as she was born and came back home from hospital, we trained her to sleep in her own room..first week she cried for 15 mns, we did nothing exept to check if there were nothing wrong, and after 2 weeks it was finish, she was falling asleep and that was it. When she became older, i read her a little story because she liked it and me as well, and after that i closed her room door and that was it for the night. Due to this, i remenber we could go everywhere with her, and when it was time to go to sleep, no problems, She was able to sleep in a baby bag even at restaurant or wherever else. She started sailing when she was 1 year old, and even in bad weather when it was time to have a rest, she did, with no stress or question about the night or boat. I can witness that for other parents, it was not the same story...baby does not want to go to sleep, ok he does not...staying awake among adults for hours...got to sleep at midnight..ok no problem he will be tired tomorrow but hey, that's the life ! . Also, is that the only way to be sure that your child will be confident when the time will come to face his own life...i don't know, you are more qualified than me and hope you are right.

Just to end, how will you manage a navigation (i mean with nights and days at sea) sleeping 3 in one cabin...(even with a wide bed) My experience at sea is that everybody should have his own place to rest, and not be disturbed by those who start or end their watch time... during a sailing night, you have thousand of reasons to get off your bed, going up and down every 30 mns. (not always i agree) You are going to end your sailing time so tired than you wont be able to think about another one for a long time.

Hope you will enjoy sharing on the subject !
Have a nice day.






I

[Sea Frog]

Originally Posted by Catastroff

Hello sea frog, i do not come again on the fact that i am tired to read post of people asking for the better boat for their needs...

Well, I guess, just don't read such posts then (as you said) I am glad I opened this thread. Firstly, people pointed me to the right direction - Privilege cats - that I have completely forgot about. It turned out that they have everything I need (it even turned out that I know someone personally, who is the owner of Priv 495). Then, folks managed to talk me from boom furlers and pointed in the direction of more robust solutions. I consider this thread a success

Originally Posted by Catastroff

But what you say about kids sleeping with parents is an interresting point of view, even if it is not mine, and even if it is not the right place for this. Why do you think your kids would be bettter in the future by sleeping with parents) ??

It is not about sleeping only. Co-sleeping is a part of a whole approach which can be called "attachment parenting". As for "why do I think"... This is not a point of view. This is a knowledge based on my experience as a psychologist for more than 20 years. I specialize in early years "thraumas" and I know that vast majority of problems that adults have, are based on first 3 years of their life. Every day I see people that I try to help and when we get deep, deep down to where the source is, it is ALWAYS about childhood, and the most basic things (like the deepest, besic feeling of security or insecurity) are implanted in first 3 (I would even say 2) years. The problem is, in this age most of the stuff gets directly to subconsciousness, and it is almost impossible to locate and correct them later. It is really easier to avoid, then to correct later.

I would not try to explain to you the basics of the human behavioral problems, and how they are connected with a lack of proper interaction with a caregiver in early years, but if you really do want to know more, you should turn towards less scientifical and more popular books like Gordon Neufeld "Hold On To Your Kids", Jean Ledloff "The Contunuum Concept", things like "attachment parenting" in general, and maybe a book of Alex Ramonsky "I've changed my mind" (a part where he explains "matrix theory" and exact influence of various stuff on the development of human brain and concsuiousness in general, the rest of the book is probably not interesting for you).

As for your daughter. I do not doubt she is in every way "normal". I do have a son of 20 and he is absolutely normal too (we treated him the same way as you did), but I have a privilege of being able to compare him to my younger son, and to other children from families where "attachment parenting" is being practiced. This should be witnessed to be believed! Besides, I have a first-hand experience myself - I have been brought up exactly the same way you brought up your daughter (this is a pretty normal mainstream model of parenting), and it took me years of extremely advanced work to understand what exactly have been damaged, why it have been damaged, and at least partially correct this. Now, for me there is no questions on what is good and what should be avoided, if you want to have a child that's above so-called socially accepted "norm".

Originally Posted by Catastroff

Just to end, how will you manage a navigation (i mean with nights and days at sea) sleeping 3 in one cabin...(even with a wide bed) My experience at sea is that everybody should have his own place to rest, and not be disturbed by those who start or end their watch time... during a sailing night, you have thousand of reasons to get off your bed, going up and down every 30 mns. (not always i agree) You are going to end your sailing time so tired than you wont be able to think about another one for a long time.

Of course, on the sea it will be different, and most likely for a longer crossings we will be inviting an extra crew. But, we will be spending yeas in Caribes, with hust small hops between places, so it won't be a problem. The rest of the time we will be peacefully sleeping in our large cabin

I would like to state that I am not going to argue about my "views" on parenting ect. I respect any other point of view, even though I may not agree with it. I am not going to persuade anybody or prove anything. I know many people will disagree, and that's perfectly fine with me.

[MehmetCan]

O.k. What's the catch with the Freeflow 48, 'cause it looks awesome!!!

[downunder]

Nothing.

Its the vessel I am working towards. Watched Keshi the 1st vessel being built.
It has more room than some 50ft vessels

Designer builder was Nathan Stanton a former owner who started Lightwave building Lightwave 38 and 45's. Has some similarities to the Lightwave 45 but a much later modern design designed as a long distance off grid cruiser.

The Lightwave is a highly respected vessel in Australia with one winning its class in a World ARC a couple of years back.

Cheers

[MehmetCan]

That explains... Anything from Kiwis or Aussies, can never go wrong!

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by downunder

Nothing.

Its the vessel I am working towards. Watched Keshi the 1st vessel being built.
It has more room than some 50ft vessels

Designer builder was Nathan Stanton a former owner who started Lightwave building Lightwave 38 and 45's. Has some similarities to the Lightwave 45 but a much later modern design designed as a long distance off grid cruiser.

The Lightwave is a highly respected vessel in Australia with one winning its class in a World ARC a couple of years back.

Cheers

Crash bulkheads? Separate compartments? etc.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Crash bulkheads? Separate compartments? etc.

Yes.

Photo Gallery

This photo and build ones will give you some idea.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by downunder

Yes.

Photo Gallery

This photo and build ones will give you some idea.

Pretty impressive.
I like the pic of the guy that is 6'4"...............like me!!

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Pretty impressive.
I like the pic of the guy that is 6'4"...............like me!!

Can't find too many issues areas I do not like as a permanent liveaboard vessel.

Only issue is too expensive to build in Australia because of our costs. There are other overseas options available for build.

Vessel went into water full fuel and water, all chain/anchors without mast at around 7.2 t from memory.

[MehmetCan]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Pretty impressive.
I like the pic of the guy that is 6'4"...............like me!!

6' 4" is the magical number that I share as well...

[leaurider]

The boat best considered for liveaboard is the Antares. I buddy cruised with an Antares 44 last winter and the more time I spent aboard the better the smarter the boat looked. The weather protection was fantastic and the quality of equipment was very high. The boat also pointed better than my Taswell 43.

[downunder]

leaurider,

if you look through the Freeflow links you will find a vessel with many of the concept advantages of an Antares plus many more in a much later, roomer 2010 year flat panel resin infused design.

All heavy weight centrally located including mid mounted motors, shaft drive with 3% shaft angle, even better weather/sun protection with best airflow i have ever seen on a vessel, centrally located mast as on most fast racing vessels and recently the new lagoon 39 and 52. Much more room.

Not saving the Antares design is not an excellent vessel but in 2013 the design and molds were developed some time ago.