The reason lighter cats are safer?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Something few people grasp. For instance, the Lagoon 420 promotional video. Doing around 15 kts in 23 kts breeze, reaching with a huge assymetric and full main, and the windward hull looking pretty light.

We'd be doing similar speeds with 2 reefs in, and the headsail. And with the centre of effort so much lower we'd have huge reserves of safety.

L42 on that wideo sails angle 135 and apparent wind 15 kn and is doing 16 kn so all within reefing guidelines.

you say your boat does 16 kn boat speed in 15 apparent with second reef ??

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

L42 on that wideo sails angle 135 and apparent wind 15 kn and is doing 16 kn so all within reefing guidelines.



you say your boat does 16 kn boat speed in 15 apparent with second reef ??

For the L42 they have 28 knots TWS. Running a spinnaker and full main would be bloody scary on our boat.

We averaged 18 knots for 45 miles in 30 knots TWS of breeze DDW with only our self tacking jib barber hauled out and forward to the rail. AWS was well below 20 knots the entire time and our top speed surf on the 2 metre wind waves 25 knots. Effortless sailing with very little sail up.

If we were beam reaching in that wind, TWA 90* and AWS 34 we would have boat speed 14-16 knots and a staysail and two reefs. Again effortless sailing and small sails.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by fxykty

For the L42 they have 28 knots TWS. Running a spinnaker and full main would be bloody scary on our boat.

I read video as 20 to 23 true wind. Meaning true wind angle 135. Lagoon reefing table is max 15kn AWS below 160 angle:
Spinaker: max. 15 kn AWS @120°
Spinaker: max. 25 kn AWS @160°

Originally Posted by fxykty

We averaged 18 knots for 45 miles in 30 knots TWS of breeze DDW with only our self tacking jib barber hauled out and forward to the rail. AWS was well below 20 knots the entire time and our top speed surf on the 2 metre wind waves 25 knots. Effortless sailing with very little sail up.

Hard to imagine averaging 18 kn boat speed in 12 kn of apparent wind with poled jib, even for O 55. But lets say it is true.

Originally Posted by fxykty

If we were beam reaching in that wind, TWA 90* and AWS 34 we would have boat speed 14-16 knots and a staysail and two reefs. Again effortless sailing and small sails.

Believe that as we do 10 + kn in such situation.

I have no doubts about O55 abilities, just saying 44C with 2 reefs will not reach at 16 kn in 15 kn apparent at 90 apparent angle.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

L42 on that wideo sails angle 135 and apparent wind 15 kn and is doing 16 kn so all within reefing guidelines.

you say your boat does 16 kn boat speed in 15 apparent with second reef ??

I didn't see that data on the video. Only TWS and boatspeed. And in 23 - 25 kts, we'd be doing mid teens with two or three reefs in deep reaching.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I didn't see that data on the video. Only TWS and boatspeed. And in 23 - 25 kts, we'd be doing mid teens with two or three reefs in deep reaching.

video of what you describe would be nice.

On lagoon video i could see 20 to 23 kn true. With boat going 16 kn means apparent wind is ~15 kn.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

video of what you describe would be nice.

On lagoon video i could see 20 to 23 kn true. With boat going 16 kn means apparent wind is ~15 kn.

If what you're saying is true, is 135 AWA, 23 kts true and 16 kts boat speed, then AWS is around 8 kts. No, we won't sail that fast in that. But neither would the L420.

If AWS was 15, then TWS was around 28. And yeah. In 28 we'd go that speed with three reefs. Next time we do it I'll film.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

If what you're saying is true, is 135 AWA, 23 kts true and 16 kts boat speed, then AWS is around 8 kts. No, we won't sail that fast in that. But neither would the L420.

If AWS was 15, then TWS was around 28. And yeah. In 28 we'd go that speed with three reefs. Next time we do it I'll film.

Ok thks, looking forward. Your math is a bit out. Here is relevant calc.

[arsenelupiga]

i just love this vid. in case you have not seen it yet.

https://youtu.be/NLduQ1XC56o

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i just love this vid. in case you have not seen it yet.

https://youtu.be/NLduQ1XC56o

Nice!

This is an oldie but goodie:

https://youtu.be/FWINygISxDE

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Ah yes, "we are not in a hurry" the classic excuse owners of slow boats use.

Ok, so why hoist the main? What's your hurry? Why trim sails? What's your hurry? Why start the diesels (almost every trip) What's your hurry?

You can just drift around until the food runs out.

And guess what? We're not in a hurry either. But we enjoy sailing a boat that actually sails. We enjoy a boat that responds to our inputs, where you can see performance benefits from getting trim etc right. It's actually fun.

And getting to an anchorage DAYS ahead of the slow boats means DAYS of comfort while they're still on passage, staying up at night watchkeeping etc...

And it's not like we suffer at anchor. We have 3 full size queen beds that actually use real queen size matresses from a bed shop, not custom cut 3" foam..... And ours is a massively heavy and comfortable foot thick latex one. A spacious lounge seperate dining, big galley, refrigeration, freezer, plenty of water plus a watermaker, a 2.4m dinghy with 15hp, toys etc.

A boxy production cat sails quite well, don't underestimate a Lagoon. We use to sail 160...200nm per day.

This is not much, but we also prevent sailing in more than 24kn TWS if possible, so we choose our weather windows carefully for a nice slow and smoothe sail in 15..24kn of wind. We do wait for those weather windows or choose our route accordingly to not run into higher winds. Given this facts, 160..200nm are not bad at all. We are not racing and don't need to set speed records anyway. We don't use our engines for moving usually - they run only for anchorage maneuvers.

6..8kn are absolutely a nice cruising speed to get from A to B with a nice sea state and no drama.

The difference is, we have the comfort not only at the destination anchorage, but allready all the way to it, you may arrive a day earlier to start playing, but we have the fun all the time.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

A boxy production cat sails quite well, don't underestimate a Lagoon. We use to sail 160...200nm per day.

This is not much, but we also prevent sailing in more than 24kn TWS if possible, so we choose our weather windows carefully for a nice slow and smoothe sail in 15..24kn of wind. We do wait for those weather windows or choose our route accordingly to not run into higher winds. Given this facts, 160..200nm are not bad at all. We are not racing and don't need to set speed records anyway. We don't use our engines for moving usually - they run only for anchorage maneuvers.

6..8kn are absolutely a nice cruising speed to get from A to B with a nice sea state and no drama.

The difference is, we have the comfort not only at the destination anchorage, but allready all the way to it, you may arrive a day earlier to start playing, but we have the fun all the time.

And you don’t think people on lightweight catamarans are comfortable? I’ve sailed on a couple of Lagoons and to be honest I could never get used to the creaking and groaning of the bulkheads and furniture. Does that occur in a choppy anchorage as well as under sail? Our lightweight cats have been silent under sail except for 5he sound of the water rushing by.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by smj

And you don’t think people on lightweight catamarans are comfortable? I’ve sailed on a couple of Lagoons and to be honest I could never get used to the creaking and groaning of the bulkheads and furniture. Does that occur in a choppy anchorage as well as under sail? Our lightweight cats have been silent under sail except for 5he sound of the water rushing by.

This are special effects, built in - made by sound designers - to mock up the feeling on an old wooden clipper. You cannot have this on a plastic boat. [emoji6]

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

This are special effects, built in - made by sound designers - to mock up the feeling on an old wooden clipper. You cannot have this on a plastic boat. [emoji6]

Exactly what do you think your boat is made of?

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

This are special effects, built in - made by sound designers - to mock up the feeling on an old wooden clipper. You cannot have this on a plastic boat. [emoji6]

Now that is having a positive attitude!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Ok thks, looking forward. Your math is a bit out. Here is relevant calc.

I thought you were Australian?