Thinking about a salvaged catamaran

[riki]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Related to this are you an EU resident and will the boat go to the EU ever?

If the boat hasn't been CE certified, my understanding is it's a huge hassle and expense to get it certified after it leave the manufacturers plant.

Then you have the 20%+ VAT.

Thank you to getting into cosiderartion the eu certification because i didn't think about it: i will have to investigate this thing. I know by sure that french cats are, but can't say the same for south african ones......have to check.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You might want to think about getting it fixed up enough just to get to Florida. Everything is there. Masts, booms, sails, air conditioners and more are made there. There is a huge boating industry that has it all. You could forego the expense of shipping it to Turkey and put that money into repairs in Florida and then sail it back or just settle for just sailing it around the Carib. Now that would suck.

It might be an option.......but at this point won't be wiser to make it to Mexico? I read about a lot of people going there for repairs and spending 1/3 of what they would in the Us.

[gaucho]

The repair/yard/workmanship industry you usually read about in Mexico is on the other side (Pacific, Baja California area). The Caribbean/Gulf side of Mexico has very little infrastructure, no yards, few if any lifts, and no wealt of providers. Most of the Carib side is basically Isla Mujeres, which is by all means a small sailing community on a small island.

You might want to look at Trinidad/Tobago near the Caribbean.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by riki

It might be an option.......but at this point won't be wiser to make it to Mexico? I read about a lot of people going there for repairs and spending 1/3 of what they would in the Us.

You are going to need a lot of stuff and everything you will need is in the US. Most of those salvaged boats are minus a rig. 2 of the biggest mast makers in the world have factories in or near Florida. Transporting a mast from there to southern Mexico will be problematic on a good day. Finding riggers might be an issue also. You would be better off leaving it in the Caribbean.

[alansmith]

Riki, you remind me so much of my self....smile. So, I understand you. Men are dreamers and we have some sort of genetic disorder...deeply ingrained in us that wants to do “Mission Impossible” as if we have no barriers...”if I can think it can be done...it can be done” sort of mentality.

Can you do what you are proposing? Of course you can. I am not trying to discourage you. Much good information already given. But I will try and give you some more information that I hope will help you...

One fella remarked on it...the survey....Here is how it goes. Hurricane strikes the fleet. Many boats damaged. All shades of grey....Some just been stanchions and light fiberglass damage. Some boats have the amas breached and extensive damage to mechanical and electrical....or worse. Weeks after the hurricane has passed the insurance carriers send their teams of surveyors (and when the $hit hits the fan at this level you can imagine the quality of surveyor that is available) to the islands to see what can be done about their liability. Take a half million dollar boat like a 3 year old Lagoon...maybe 45 foot....rigging is severely damaged or already been cut away by whoever....hull has been breached with extensive damage to the interior. Boat is a total loss. Here is the key point....when a surveyor takes a look at that particular boat he/she doesn’t specify every little thing that is wrong with that boat....they can’t. They just get the general idea “overall” what it will cost to repair. They have no idea if those diesel motors can be rebuilt. Has the drive shaft been bent? Are they so corroded that they can’t be used? A hull that has been breached will require that everything inside that boat will have to be yanked out and redone. The survey will not get into each thing like liners for the cabin interior, insulation, wiring, cosmetic trim, refrigerators, stoves, toilets, plumbing, main panels, solar, inverters, and a thousand other things.

So, the other thing to consider is scale.... A drum for winches on a 25 foot Catalina might cost you 500 dollars. On a 50 foot cat....twice the size of the Catalina ....will not cost you twice the size of the Catalina’s winch....it will cost you 10 times the cost. It is surreal the cost of big boat stuff.

Riki, now...the other part. When you fly to Puerto Rico or BVI you will find boats that are left. there is a reason they are still there. The cherries have already been picked over. You will need to hire a good surveyor. That will cost you a small fortune for each boat you want to look at. It will be a weird surveyor at best. You can’t start the motors unless you get lucky and find a boat that floats and electrical/mechanical are still functional. I believe all these boats are gone. The surveyor will have no way to know if the engine is salvageable. What about the transmission? What about the shaft? Perhaps you can look at 20 boats and cherry pick the top 2-3 and make a decision which ones look like they will pass.

Rigging? Have you ever been on board a 50 foot cat? Their rigging is massive. Their steel rod rigging is thicker than my index finger. If you think you can buy a mast for 2-3 K on eBay that wil move a boat of this dimension.....I just honestly can’t get my mind around such a thing. You have no idea how expensive a 70 foot mast, boom, fittings, and standing rigging that is required to support such a creature costs.

We have a fella on here who lives down in BVI who is a marine service provider. Decent and honest chap. You can’t get a mast down there. All the decent masts were snapped up by the locals. He admitted that he was one of the lucky locals....and he well connected in the industry.

I say, Riki, you are intelligent and want something special....go down there. Spend a couple of weeks and see what you can find. Then sit down with a surveyor and down a couple of cold ones and get their opinion. This project boat could easily take 2-4 years and >100K to restore. Would you be money ahead? Yes! But could you afford to be 200K into the boat? Even if you have buddies that will jump in....even if you can an account that is setup as 30 percent off....you are in ‘big boy’ territory for prices.

I wish you luck. I bought a 5k dollar boat and did 90 percent of the work. I am 45 K into the boat and it still not finished. So, i went and bought another boat that is finished and ready to sail as is. I will never do another project boat. It is just too expensive and takes too much time. That was a hard lesson for me. The boat’s value is about 12 thousand as she sits. That is boating...

It is scary thing....I think Atoll is one of our CF. Org. Members who rebuilt a catamaran and he has been working on it for 3-4 years. This guy is excellent craftsman and very experienced. Check out his build process....it is extensive....it will help you to understand what you are biting off.

Respectfully, Alan

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Riki, you remind me so much of my self....smile. So, I understand you. Men are dreamers and we have some sort of genetic disorder...deeply ingrained in us that wants to do “Mission Impossible” as if we have no barriers...”if I can think it can be done...it can be done” sort of mentality.

Can you do what you are proposing? Of course you can. I am not trying to discourage you. Much good information already given. But I will try and give you some more information that I hope will help you...

One fella remarked on it...the survey....Here is how it goes. Hurricane strikes the fleet. Many boats damaged. All shades of grey....Some just been stanchions and light fiberglass damage. Some boats have the amas breached and extensive damage to mechanical and electrical....or worse. Weeks after the hurricane has passed the insurance carriers send their teams of surveyors (and when the $hit hits the fan at this level you can imagine the quality of surveyor that is available) to the islands to see what can be done about their liability. Take a half million dollar boat like a 3 year old Lagoon...maybe 45 foot....rigging is severely damaged or already been cut away by whoever....hull has been breached with extensive damage to the interior. Boat is a total loss. Here is the key point....when a surveyor takes a look at that particular boat he/she doesn’t specify every little thing that is wrong with that boat....they can’t. They just get the general idea “overall” what it will cost to repair. They have no idea if those diesel motors can be rebuilt. Has the drive shaft been bent? Are they so corroded that they can’t be used? A hull that has been breached will require that everything inside that boat will have to be yanked out and redone. The survey will not get into each thing like liners for the cabin interior, insulation, wiring, cosmetic trim, refrigerators, stoves, toilets, plumbing, main panels, solar, inverters, and a thousand other things.

So, the other thing to consider is scale.... A drum for winches on a 25 foot Catalina might cost you 500 dollars. On a 50 foot cat....twice the size of the Catalina ....will not cost you twice the size of the Catalina’s winch....it will cost you 10 times the cost. It is surreal the cost of big boat stuff.

Riki, now...the other part. When you fly to Puerto Rico or BVI you will find boats that are left. there is a reason they are still there. The cherries have already been picked over. You will need to hire a good surveyor. That will cost you a small fortune for each boat you want to look at. It will be a weird surveyor at best. You can’t start the motors unless you get lucky and find a boat that floats and electrical/mechanical are still functional. I believe all these boats are gone. The surveyor will have no way to know if the engine is salvageable. What about the transmission? What about the shaft? Perhaps you can look at 20 boats and cherry pick the top 2-3 and make a decision which ones look like they will pass.

Rigging? Have you ever been on board a 50 foot cat? Their rigging is massive. Their steel rod rigging is thicker than my index finger. If you think you can buy a mast for 2-3 K on eBay that wil move a boat of this dimension.....I just honestly can’t get my mind around such a thing. You have no idea how expensive a 70 foot mast, boom, fittings, and standing rigging that is required to support such a creature costs.

We have a fella on here who lives down in BVI who is a marine service provider. Decent and honest chap. You can’t get a mast down there. All the decent masts were snapped up by the locals. He admitted that he was one of the lucky locals....and he well connected in the industry.

I say, Riki, you are intelligent and want something special....go down there. Spend a couple of weeks and see what you can find. Then sit down with a surveyor and down a couple of cold ones and get their opinion. This project boat could easily take 2-4 years and >100K to restore. Would you be money ahead? Yes! But could you afford to be 200K into the boat? Even if you have buddies that will jump in....even if you can an account that is setup as 30 percent off....you are in ‘big boy’ territory for prices.

I wish you luck. I bought a 5k dollar boat and did 90 percent of the work. I am 45 K into the boat and it still not finished. So, i went and bought another boat that is finished and ready to sail as is. I will never do another project boat. It is just too expensive and takes too much time. That was a hard lesson for me. The boat’s value is about 12 thousand as she sits. That is boating...

It is scary thing....I think Atoll is one of our CF. Org. Members who rebuilt a catamaran and he has been working on it for 3-4 years. This guy is excellent craftsman and very experienced. Check out his build process....it is extensive....it will help you to understand what you are biting off.

Respectfully, Alan

Well written Ann. There ain't no free lunches. I believe that came from the depression era. A free lunch cost a lot of beer in the end.

Maybe a more realistic approach would be better? It sounds like folly.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Well written Ann. There ain't no free lunches. I believe that came from the depression era. A free lunch cost a lot of beer in the end.

Maybe a more realistic approach would be better? It sounds like folly.

Sorry to disappoint you, but depression didn't touch me at all: the thing is that i gave time priority over many other things in life, so there must be some compromises to accept, shortcuts......i don't mean to be understood by the average 9 to 5 guy.

[sailorcherry]

Can you share where you found a mast and sails for $3-$4k for a 39-48' cat? I know someone also looking to buy a Maria cat and that's not the pricing we have found.

PS- Where in Turkey are you going to put her back together and sail? Love Turkiye!

Originally Posted by riki

I can't imagine spending more than 3/4k for a used mast: rigging, sails......i saw lot's of very cheap prices online.

[sailorcherry]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I think most of those boats sell for far less than asking price. I know of a hurricane damaged 40+ cat that would normally sell for around $350,000 that went for $16,000. I would give you more details but he is a member here and I want to respect his privacy. That boat needed a ton of work but is now floating and repowered.

If you are going to offer on these then go real low.

Out of curiosity, because I wonder how many actually fully restore a cane cat or give up along the way, did he go with keeping her as a powercat or go all out and make her sailable again? If so, what do think was the total cost and time to bring her back?

My friend, semi-retired, no wife/gf, kids, pets etc, has the time, money and knowhow to buy a salvage cat in the Carib. But he has said cruiser friends say masts are hard to come by so he uncertain about a salvage cat.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by riki

Sorry to disappoint you, but depression didn't touch me at all: the thing is that i gave time priority over many other things in life, so there must be some compromises to accept, shortcuts......i don't mean to be understood by the average 9 to 5 guy.

I think you missed the point, he was saying the phrase (there aren't any free lunches) comes from the time of the Great Depression. He wasn't saying you are depressed.

Odds are by the time you add up the value of your time working on the boat plus the ancillary costs related to the work, odds are you could have worked a job and made just as much and bought a boat in similar condition.

Nothing wrong if you like working on boats, it's a good trade off but when people go back and estimate the hourly rate they made by doing this type of project, it's common that they calculate that they made far less than minimum wage.

[riki]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Can you share where you found a mast and sails for $3-$4k for a 39-48' cat? I know someone also looking to buy a Maria cat and that's not the pricing we have found.

PS- Where in Turkey are you going to put her back together and sail? Love Turkiye!

Ebay, but to tell all the truth it happened some time ago. Checked again recently and didn't find anything that long: maximum i found a 50ft mast for like 2k....don't remember but should still be there.

[sailorcherry]

Originally Posted by riki

Ebay, but to tell all the truth it happened some time ago. Checked again recently and didn't find anything that long: maximum i found a 50ft mast for like 2k....don't remember but should still be there.

Was that a mast specifically from a Multi or from a Monohull?

[riki]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think you missed the point, he was saying the phrase (there aren't any free lunches) comes from the time of the Great Depression. He wasn't saying you are depressed.

Odds are by the time you add up the value of your time working on the boat plus the ancillary costs related to the work, odds are you could have worked a job and made just as much and bought a boat in similar condition.

Nothing wrong if you like working on boats, it's a good trade off but when people go back and estimate the hourly rate they made by doing this type of project, it's common that they calculate that they made far less than minimum wage.

Got it, as a non english mother tongue it's not always easy to get the right meaning of phrases from the great depression but i was not referring at my depression, thank God i'm not.
That said, about odds you say.....well, that's a totally different argument and not the right place to discuss about it: but shortly, what about odds when you can do in life what ever you really want?
Working on a boat could be just a beautiful new experience that can open way to new friends, new places, new adventures.....

[riki]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Was that a mast specifically from a Multi or from a Monohull?

I was specifically looking for multi masts.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think you missed the point, he was saying the phrase (there aren't any free lunches) comes from the time of the Great Depression. He wasn't saying you are depressed.

Odds are by the time you add up the value of your time working on the boat plus the ancillary costs related to the work, odds are you could have worked a job and made just as much and bought a boat in similar condition.

Nothing wrong if you like working on boats, it's a good trade off but when people go back and estimate the hourly rate they made by doing this type of project, it's common that they calculate that they made far less than minimum wage.

Thanks for knowing where the term came from. And it was not a disparaging remake toward him.