Tiller Steering and Outboard Motors

[nimblemotors]

Drop down outboards on John Hitch's XIT,
and that sure looks like tiller steering, but might have a wheel also.

[bobconnie]

Most of the CSK cats Ive sailed and seen, and remember Im an Old Guy, had a what they called a tiller system, it was bar side to side across the rudders so you could control both rudders with ease ! Of course these boats balenced very well and would sail for ever without touching the tiller bar! Some of them were bilt with outboard mounted in a center box, raised up out of the water easy, worked well! I still wish I had 50 ft CSK myself

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Hiya BoatGuy! Yes, you can build anything you want; no argument from me. The "force/muscle power" needed to control a cat's steering is very high; hence a tiller is not recommended.

Mauritz

What? The steering effort on cats is very LOW compared to monohulls. We get very little to no weather helm (which is caused by heeling).

Yes you can have tiller steering on a large cruising cat. A friend of mine has a performance cruising cat around 45' with tillers, and outboards.

Here's a video of it in the Brisbane-Gladstone race:

Check around the 5;30 mark for how "difficult" it is to steer at speed.

McMoggy 2013 Brisbane to Gladstone - YouTube

Many Schionning designs have the outboards mounted in wells.

[ab1974]

Originally Posted by decca

the sig 45... nice to dream, but not really what I can afford. Any affordable production cat with tiller steering? Regarding the engines, I was more wondering whether there is a system (that I would not have to create and design from A to Z) that exists for catamarans to power them with "inboard" outboards (keeping the outboard inside the hull, and lifting it up and down through a hole. I know of something like that for monohulls.

That is exactly how our cat is set up. We have a 46' composite built cat with outboards that raise and lower through the hulls. There is a fiberglass chute built into the hulls and the motors raise and lower vertically on a stainless rail. The top of the chute is about 200mm above the waterline, and any water that come in simply exits back out through some drains in the chute. Works a charm. Low weight, no drag when sailing and the props are below the hull so no cavitation.

[Jimbo485]

Yes! That is the way to go, Decca!

Tiller, OBs and dagger boards, they were on our list. We settled for two out of three. Keep up the search!

[FSMike]

The Iroquois 30 was manufactured with tillers.

[decca]

Hey guys, thank you SO MUCH. I learnt a lot as usual when I come here. It's like you've lightened up my path and now I can see how long the way is...but there is a way

@Nimblemotors this sure is a beautiful vessel, looks exactly like what I wish to get as a next boat.

@AB1974 I am very interested in your setup, could you give me more information (and I won't refuse pictures if you've got a few )

It's really good to see that some people took that road before me, as I don't exactly have the skills to engineer all these systems by myself. So be it, my next boat will be a cat. If you have other models / names that would fit the bill or are a good fit for a custom installations, throw them in !

[ab1974]

Down at the marina on Thursday, will take some photos and try to post them on the weekend.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by decca

Hi forum!
...
Second, I'd also like to have no inboard motor, and have instead 2 "drop off" outboard engines (that would be inside the hull, and are out of the water when not in use, dropped inside the water whenever needed).
...

As others have answered tillers are quite possible and work.

With respect to the outboards I think you would be much better off looking at outboards mounted on lifting mounts the aft side of the bridge deck. In my previous mono-hull experience, outboards in a well in the boat didn't work that well. I had a Hobie 33 which had that setup. In order to avoid lots of turbulence from the outboard well there was a plug that you fitted after lifting the outboard, but the whole process was a pain, and the outboard was not very effective. I'm guessing there is a reason that the cats I've seen out there with outboards mount them off the bridgedeck rather than in the hull.

Mark.

[Jimbo485]

Try the OBs in the cockpit lockers, further forward is better. Good access, too.

[decca]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

As others have answered tillers are quite possible and work.

With respect to the outboards I think you would be much better off looking at outboards mounted on lifting mounts the aft side of the bridge deck. In my previous mono-hull experience, outboards in a well in the boat didn't work that well. I had a Hobie 33 which had that setup. In order to avoid lots of turbulence from the outboard well there was a plug that you fitted after lifting the outboard, but the whole process was a pain, and the outboard was not very effective. I'm guessing there is a reason that the cats I've seen out there with outboards mount them off the bridgedeck rather than in the hull.

Mark.

yep, I'm aware that it can be an issue, however, here is the thing: I am way more concerned about 1/ outboard getting stolen when they are outside and 2/ outboard being exposed to water/salt/sun on a permanent basis than I am concerned about performance under power. For me engines are exclusively for docking purposes and maybe ICW manoeuvers in crowded waters. I don't really care about them being powerful/efficient. But depending on the type of cat, I guess I could still install them aft of the bridge deck but inside...?

[tybee22]

I have a Prout 31 with tillers and have a very neutral helm. In fact most of the time I just lash down the tiller instead of run the autopilot. Never had a problem with steerage. Inboard with a drive leg though.

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by decca

yep, I'm aware that it can be an issue, however, here is the thing: I am way more concerned about 1/ outboard getting stolen when they are outside and 2/ outboard being exposed to water/salt/sun on a permanent basis (snip)

Shuttleworth layout. Note 'table over engine' pod in bridgedeck arrangement. Not really 'outside' nor 'exposed'

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by decca

yep, I'm aware that it can be an issue, however, here is the thing: I am way more concerned about 1/ outboard getting stolen when they are outside and 2/ outboard being exposed to water/salt/sun on a permanent basis than I am concerned about performance under power. For me engines are exclusively for docking purposes and maybe ICW manoeuvers in crowded waters. I don't really care about them being powerful/efficient. But depending on the type of cat, I guess I could still install them aft of the bridge deck but inside...?

I don't worry about theft of my outboards. It would be very difficult to do. They weigh 65 kg, and were quite awkward to handle, even with the boat in the shed. Unbolting them, and lifting them off while working from a dinghy would be extremely hard work. Thieves don't like hard work. If they were willing to work they wouldn't need to be thieves.

[Boatguy30]

My outboards are second-hand Yamaha 8s but the same block and overall motors and the "redesigned" 9.9 introduced 2 years ago. They already have a nice patena of neglect, but great compression. I plan to mount the motors into swinging nacelle brackets that will rotate atleast 80 degrees. May actually remove the outboard transom clamps and build the nacelle right around the motors swivel tube. Save a bit of weight streamline the whole thing.

I've just listed my house for sale so may need to launch sooner than expected!

The thieving types around here are none to lazy. We don't have the wages OZ does so thieving pays much better!

I think there was a guy Catsketcher or something is his id on Boatdesign forums that said his entire nacelle and 25 hp Yamaha was sawed off and stolen in Sydney.