Tomcat 970S Vs PDQ 32 - Coastal Vs Deep Water Why?

[CaptainShack]

Hi Everyone!

Hopefully this forum can help. We're finally in a financial position to shop for our first sailboat. We're planning on a bit of an adventure. Living aboard and learning as we go. We've got a few of the basic ASA courses completed.

My wife and I are looking for a cat in the 30 foot range we can live and learn on and eventually once out skills and confidence are up to par do the US Loop.
Maybe in the future do a crossing. Be it Bahamas or the Atlantic. "nice to dream" So it be nice to know the boats capable.

While searching cats we've seen a number of posts discussing the Tomcat 9.7 / 970s "not sure what the difference is" and the PDQ 32. One seems to be widely regard as a coastal boat only.. something like the Gemini which we've already looked at locally and felt its interior was a bit claustrophobic. While the PDQ 32 seems to be mentioned on this forum as a Capable Blue Water boat capable of making various deep water crossings.

So.. my question. Can someone explain to me what makes 1 boat coastal and 1 more capable? On paper they seems VERY similar. Please keep in mind we're noobs and still learning so detailed explanations would be great!

Checking out a 970 in a few days. Like to know what I should keep an eye out for that would indicate weaknesses in construction. We do plan on having any boat we buy surveyed by a well regarded professional.

[CaptainShack]

Also any information on the 970s and its difference between the 9.7 would be appreciated.

[smj]

Take a step up and look at the PDQ 36

[ausnp84]

I don't have first-hand experience of either of these cats, but Sail Magazine has a good review of the Tomcat.


Nothing wrong with a low 30ft cat either - I downsized from a 42ft to a 30ft cat recently (not voluntary I might add - a fishing boat hit the 42ft) and having initially written off a smaller cat, I was amazed just how much space they have. Twin helms, seating for four in the cockpit / salon, two double berths, a head, a small galley and plenty of trampoline space... all with the added benefit of a.) lower maintenance costs, b.) lower berthing costs, and c.) lower loads on all the rigging, so you can go sailing in a light breeze and anchor close to shore.


What makes a coastal vs offshore cat? In my opinion, it's all down to bridge deck clearance. Sure, a 40ft cat will handle chop and waves better than a 30ft, but when mother nature really turns nasty and you're getting pummelled, that extra 10ft won't mean sh*t to big ol' green waves. They'll smash anything... so the trick is to sail smart. Your plans off crossing the stream and doing the Carib will fit fine for a low 30ft cat.


Back to bridge deck clearance (BDC). Some 40ft+ cats have no BDC and slam relentlessly, and some small cats have plenty of BDC and ride chop / waves well. Talk to the existing owner about how they find the boat and also find owner's groups / reviews. This forum is awesome for finding review as well.


Hope that all helps!



n

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

SNIP

What makes a coastal vs offshore cat? In my opinion, it's all down to bridge deck clearance. Sure, a 40ft cat will handle chop and waves better than a 30ft, but when mother nature really turns nasty and you're getting pummelled, that extra 10ft won't mean sh*t to big ol' green waves. They'll smash anything... so the trick is to sail smart. Your plans off crossing the stream and doing the Carib will fit fine for a low 30ft cat.


Back to bridge deck clearance (BDC). Some 40ft+ cats have no BDC and slam relentlessly, and some small cats have plenty of BDC and ride chop / waves well. Talk to the existing owner about how they find the boat and also find owner's groups / reviews. This forum is awesome for finding review as well.


Hope that all helps!



n

Every cat in the range we are discussing has a bridge deck clearance between two and four feet. Even in what I call normal weather a four foot wave is common so a four foot bridge deck clearance does not offer a lot more protection from slamming than a two foot bridge deck clearance. There is a difference when the waves are what I call tiny. So if you sail where the waves are no bigger than three feet there may be some advantage to a four foot bridge deck clearance. But when talking about water sailing">blue water sailing a four foot wave is tiny to me.

The thing is that by sailing at the right angle to waves bridge deck clearance becomes less of an issue. Often times heading up or falling off a few degrees will do more to eliminate slamming than another foot of bridge deck clearance.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Every cat in the range we are discussing has a bridge deck clearance between two and four feet. Even in what I call normal weather a four foot wave is common so a four foot bridge deck clearance does not offer a lot more protection from slamming than a two foot bridge deck clearance. There is a difference when the waves are what I call tiny. So if you sail where the waves are no bigger than three feet there may be some advantage to a four foot bridge deck clearance. But when talking about blue water sailing a four foot wave is tiny to me.

The thing is that by sailing at the right angle to waves bridge deck clearance becomes less of an issue. Often times heading up or falling off a few degrees will do more to eliminate slamming than another foot of bridge deck clearance.

There's four foot waves and then there's four foot waves... a four foot choppy wave on Biscayne Bay or in the Solent will act very differently to a four foot (eight foot) blue water offshore wave, and hit the cat in a completely different way - which is kinda where I think you're going with this is as well. If the OP is doing inshore sailing then a 3-4ft BDC will be alright.. any lower and I think it'll turn into quite a noisy ride.



The more BDC, the better IMHO and absolutely agree - changing the angle just a smidge can produce a much, much smoother ride


n

[BobHorn]

Owned an Endeavourcat 30 for a few months. Loved everything about the boat but the wave slap drove us crazy. Even at anchor, with any kind of wind, it was, for us, unbearable.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by BobHorn

Owned an Endeavourcat 30 for a few months. Loved everything about the boat but the wave slap drove us crazy. Even at anchor, with any kind of wind, it was, for us, unbearable.

From under the transoms or bridgedeck? And what's the clearance like on the bridgedeck?


n

[smj]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

There's four foot waves and then there's four foot waves... a four foot choppy wave on Biscayne Bay or in the Solent will act very differently to a four foot (eight foot) blue water offshore wave, and hit the cat in a completely different way - which is kinda where I think you're going with this is as well. If the OP is doing inshore sailing then a 3-4ft BDC will be alright.. any lower and I think it'll turn into quite a noisy ride.



The more BDC, the better IMHO and absolutely agree - changing the angle just a smidge can produce a much, much smoother ride


n

It’s very rare to find any catamaran with a 3-4’ bridgedeck clearance, let alone a 30-32’ catamaran.
We have almost 3’ on our TRT and bridgedeck slap is very rare. We had about 1’ on our Gemini and it slammed in almost any condition, sailing or at anchor.
So much more to slamming than just BD clearance. Buoyancy of hulls, vertical sections in the BD, large radius between BD and hulls, appendages hanging down etc. all have a big part of BD pounding

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Every cat in the range we are discussing has a bridge deck clearance between two and four feet. Even in what I call normal weather a four foot wave is common so a four foot bridge deck clearance does not offer a lot more protection from slamming than a two foot bridge deck clearance. There is a difference when the waves are what I call tiny. So if you sail where the waves are no bigger than three feet there may be some advantage to a four foot bridge deck clearance. But when talking about blue water sailing a four foot wave is tiny to me.

The thing is that by sailing at the right angle to waves bridge deck clearance becomes less of an issue. Often times heading up or falling off a few degrees will do more to eliminate slamming than another foot of bridge deck clearance.

They don't provide bridge deck clearance data, but if the salon has standing headroom then it can't have much over a foot, either boat. Can they?

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by smj

It’s very rare to find any catamaran with a 3-4’ bridgedeck clearance, let alone a 30-32’ catamaran.
We have almost 3’ on our TRT and bridgedeck slap is very rare. We had about 1’ on our Gemini and it slammed in almost any condition, sailing or at anchor.
So much more to slamming than just BD clearance. Buoyancy of hulls, vertical sections in the BD, large radius between BD and hulls, appendages hanging down etc. all have a big part of BD pounding

Yep I’m with you on that - my 3-4ft comment was referring to it mentioned earlier. IIRC my last cat had 2ft (42ft) and the latest is about similar (30ft cat). Hull shape, width betwen hulls, shape of the tunnel / bridgedeck to hull shape all make a difference, but it goes without saying a low bridgedeck is usually going to be noisy...

N

[ausnp84]

Can’t seem to edit.. the new to us 30ft cat has 1.5-2ft of BDC, plus much less distance between hulls and a fatter hull shape, and has a lot less slam / more kindly motion.

N

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by wingssail

They don't provide bridge deck clearance data, but if the salon has standing headroom then it can't have much over a foot, either boat. Can they?

The PDQ 32 has about two feet of clearance... because the salon only has standing head room with the slider open... which is actually pretty realistic, since the slider opens inside a protected hard top area. You only close the slider in cool weather, and even then you only need to bow your head to walk across.


The PDQ 32 is a VERY strong boat for it's size. It's not heavier, just better built than than the competition, which is why they stopped making them (too expensive to build) and why most are still in excellent condition. Very durable. No creaking in the wildest weather.

[BobHorn]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

From under the transoms or bridgedeck? And what's the clearance like on the bridgedeck?

Mostly from the transom, not sure about the bridge deck clearance. It is a beautifully built boat, much more modern and up to date than any of the old English cats we looked at, PDQ, Catalac and others.
The back end of each hull is a cabin, almost big enough for two, but really comfy for one with great ventilation. The front part of the port hull is a really nice size galley. The front part of the starboard hull is the head with a huge shower.
Hated the wave slap and coming down the Chesapeake we wanted to turn into a river for the night. That put the wind on our beam and at that point I decided I really wanted that 8000 lbs of lead hanging down under the boat. Flying a hull on a Hobie on a lake is fun,that wasn't.

[smj]

Originally Posted by BobHorn

Mostly from the transom, not sure about the bridge deck clearance. It is a beautifully built boat, much more modern and up to date than any of the old English cats we looked at, PDQ, Catalac and others.
The back end of each hull is a cabin, almost big enough for two, but really comfy for one with great ventilation. The front part of the port hull is a really nice size galley. The front part of the starboard hull is the head with a huge shower.
Hated the wave slap and coming down the Chesapeake we wanted to turn into a river for the night. That put the wind on our beam and at that point I decided I really wanted that 8000 lbs of lead hanging down under the boat. Flying a hull on a Hobie on a lake is fun,that wasn't.

Modern would probably be close to the last word I could think of to describe the Endeavourcat 30.