Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[Jmolan]

Rann, you can download this program for free.

FastStone Image Viewer, Screen Capture, Photo Resizer ...

I use it to to re-size my photos. It is very user friendly. Just dump any photo you want to post here into Faststone, go to edit and resize. Just make sure the file ends up 400k or less. Save it to you desktop or some other folder you can find. Then when you go to post a photo just scroll down below the reply box you normally use to respond on here. Hit the "manage attachments" button and list the files you want to upload....

As far as Dux goes, no less than Brion Toss himself is rigging his very own personal 36 foot cutter with John's stuff as we speak. He was so excited, he is taking down his 2 year old wire to do it...:-) Brion Toss has a number of good discussions in his "Spar Talk" forum. I know Brion to be a hard core tradition bound guy who also keeps his eye out for any new things. He told us he knew this was coming, he was just kind of hanging back letting someone else work out the bugs...;-) Another well known and respected designer told me he would not be surprised to stop designing boats with wire within ten years....

Also I just ran across this most excellent site. This guy is very together on bedding fittings and oversizing the holes etc. Just what I needed to find as I should start rebedding everything this week with any luck.
"How To" - The Boat Projects & Upgrade Blogs Photo Gallery by Maine Sailing at pbase.com

Maren: First off thanks on the link. Do you have any idea what happened to Steve Rust? I hope all is OK. He used to be a regular poster here.

Also I am confused Is Cloudia the boat you are reering to on the cutting it up and shipping? Where are you shipping it too? Whoa! What a project that must be! Good luck!

Oh just ran across these photos.......install windows last week. Had to get them done so I could make a mess of things with bottom paint dust..:-)

[Maren]

Originally Posted by Jmolan

Maren: First off thanks on the link. Do you have any idea what happened to Steve Rust? I hope all is OK. He used to be a regular poster here.

Also I am confused Is Cloudia the boat you are reering to on the cutting it up and shipping? Where are you shipping it too? Whoa! What a project that must be! Good luck!

The windows turned out really well! As for Steve, I haven't seen him around for about two months now and I am hoping he out sailing or doing something really fun.

Cloudia is the 34' I just got and we'll sail home next summer, I think. The one I cut apart and sent cross country with the pirates was a 44' CC. It also happens to be the boat mentioned in post #1 of this thread. While I would prefer to have been working on the the 44', the 34' will be a really good project too.

So, let me ask you a question now (since I just happen to have a ton of new smaller projects to be working and thinking about):

How UV resistant are the synthetic rigging materials?

[Jmolan]

So, let me ask you a question now (since I just happen to have a ton of new smaller projects to be working and thinking about):

How UV resistant are the synthetic rigging materials?

Maren, UV for this stuff is ongoing. There are F-boats in California who were the first to use this stuff I believe. I think they are are 3 years and I have heard of no problems. Dux is rated "good" whisch is better than anything else we found. But what does that mean? :-)

We have a great place here on the Sea of Cortez to test our own ideas on UV. John just took a 9mm line off his boat that has has full expozure for 18 months. And he is doing a pull test to see if we are getiing any breakdown in strengths. I have halyard that have been on for two years. I have puposely left them exposed to see how they hold up.

I gues the official (save your a**) statement is 3 to 5 years. But this is only because there has not been any longer than that to determine a time factor.

[Jmolan]

Man I had no idea I would be working this hard for a month now. I am rolling bottom paint on now. 2 coats on one to go tomorrow...whew! Just looking at the dates and all I had two weeks to prep and paint the inside of the windows area. And almost two weeks of sanding the bottom, and filling and sanding and filling...etc. Paint prep takes so long it sure makes the painting go fast and seem like a breeze.
Deck fitting will get mounted next, then splice up the rig. Hope to have better shots soon!

1st shot is the hulls done and ready to wipe down with thinner and roll the paint. Also feature the 1978 Honda CT 90 trail bike. My little burro here in Mexico. I have put on 3k in the 3 years I have had it, just running around here. It is one of the best bikes Honda ever built. Seems like down here you get Old Honda tail bikes, Manx dune buggy's, VW things, and old trimarans...hahaha lots of classic stuff, stuck in the 70's maybe?

2nd shot is "part" of the clean up, the barrel is full of spent sanding disks and papers.....

3rd shot is on Ama finally coated with the black stuff.

[rossad]

All interesting stuff Jmolan
Keep up the good work.... its all worth it in the end.
You get so much pride once you get through.
Even on the water... sailing feels better once you put the hard yards in.
All Searunner owners must go through this.

[Rann]

Jack,

Corazon is looking fabulous! I thought I could do much of the work on ETAK in less time than I spent, but I too found that weeks and weeks of sanding, filling, sanding, filling just kept on slipping by. Soon, I'll be back to it again and hope to reach your current state of refurbishment in 2009.

Rann

[Maren]

Originally Posted by Jmolan

Man I had no idea I would be working this hard for a month now.

Yes, but its really turning out well.

By the way, what's the plan of how you intend to have her outfitted/upgraded? I'm asking this because I'm in (almost literally) the same boat you (and Rann) are in and I would love to hear you imput.

[Jmolan]

Well I got the rudder mounted (drilled) today. I will pull it off and finish sanding and painting it. Was a bit tense trying to make sure the bolts lined up, as well as not having any of the hardware binding. Done as well as I could today I recon.
I think I may have invented a new tool today...:-) In Mexico you can buy these "scratchy pad" in 3 different colors/grits. I find they are simply unbeatable at getting paint and epoxy off of stuff without damaging the under stuff. I hooked the heavy scratchy up to my vibrator sander and cleaned up all my chain-plates and rudder hardware today. Worked really well.
Found this shot while looking for one to another thread about wind vanes. Man how could you not want a wind-vane. In this shot we are trolling about 7 to 8 kts.....boat is steering itself. Gotta love it.

Maren: to answer your question I would go back a bit. when I got the boat I knew it was going to need some "detailing" It was really well built but the last 5 years of Sea of Cortez Sun and constant live aboard left it in need of a refit. It was at the end of a wear cycle. I determined to look past a lot of the cosmetics and just go sailing for a while. I sailed almost every day for many months. Day-sailing out from my house in Mexico is easy. I had a ball. It allowed me to enjoy the boat and have friends on and all that. But more important I could see what needed doing first and what I thought was important and not. I mean every thing from the running lights to the plumbing to the windows on and on and on.
I figure after 30 years of shipyards on big boats it comes down to this.

#1. Repairs...gotta fix the stuff that is broke. At least the stuff that you NEED to sail and function

#2. Maintenance...gotta keep the stuff up and running before it breaks and leaves you stranded.

#3 Improvements....this is where you get to upgrade to new goodies and shiny stuff that all the other boats have.

Well it is easy to want to start at #3...:-)

Our plans so far for Corazon is get it newly rigged with Dux dead-eye rigging and get it in the water. Get it out in front of the house and finish up a bunch of the deck fittings/interior clean ups. We did a very fast paint job on the ugly floorboards, and bought a new 3 burner stove that will relace the rusty piece of junk that was there. Things like that.
I will keep the 9.9 H.P Yamaha outboard for now. Rann and I are looking at a 13 H.P. diesel. I want to be ready to cruise before I go to work in Ak. in Jan. to fish. We plan to cruise south to at least La Paz in March, April, May. No fancy electronics (I have way to any of those at work) A Lot of good anchor gear and paper charts and a couple small handheld GPS's. Is plenty for this area.
That's kinda it in a nutshell. If I can ever swing work I want to single-hand to Hawaii and maybe back to S. California before returning here to the Sea of Cortez. That's about all the plans I have for now.
I already have "next shipyard" list going. I want to strip and paint the mast, replace the floors with something nice. Install a real icebox/fridge maybe in the floor below the table. Maybe not I will have to look at all that. Electric wise I am real simple. Although I do have 3 / 80 watt Kyrocea panels that I got off another boat. Same boat I got the tri-color mast head anchor strobe. I have already ordered the new bulbs from Dr. LED via a reco from Roy. Man at $49 each they better be the cats meeowoo I tell ya. But if the anchor light burns on 1/10 of an amp, I should be able to leave it on 24/7 out in front of my house.
I am due for a new mainsail and stay-sail. Just had Tony Morrelli (his brother is the big time cat designer) Sew up my main. He is cruising here with his wife and makes sail repairs on the side. Said I might get another year outta the main. I want to spend the money on sails, and anchors, and slick bottoms and hardy paint jobs. Part of it is a long time belief in the Searunner Jim Brown way of seafaring, and the other part is I stare at 17 screens (at last count) not counting all the radios and satellite com stuff for a living......So I enjoy feeling the wind and do not need to look at a dial indicator to tell me where the wind is coming from....:-)
We will be gone for a few days to go on short road trip to Matzalan to have turkey with some old friends. Hope every one has a very thankful thanksgiving....:-)

[Rann]

Jack,

Corazon is definitely coming along. Getting her back in the water and in front of house on the mooring will sure be a change from all the yard work you have done.

I am including some pictures of four different three-burner RV cooktops that are commonly out there in RVs. In fact, the one with three pictures in one with the two-burner version is the unit I have in my Roadtrek van. It is too small for everyday use in my opinion; there is not enough room for pots on it, plus there is wasted space where the controls are. I am interested to know which unit you chose. Would it be any one of these I have pictured below? What is your reaction to the one you bought and installed (or will soon)?

I removed my old Shipmate oven and two burner range from ETAK because it portrudes too far into the galley, the burner controls don't have the indent to keep them turn off if accidentally bumped, and it is too darn heavy! So, I will be replacing it with a three burner cooktop only, no oven this time. It will be lighter in weight, safer with the burner knobs that can't be accidentally bumped on. I also have an idea to run a mechanical device to turn off the propane at the tank instead of the electic switch we used before. That little control took about an amp per hour.

Did yout get new chainplates for the shrouds? If so, what width did you go to in order to fit the deadeyes for the Dux? Looking at the photos you posted a while back, it looks like adding another 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width would be enough for the deadeyes to fit properly. Using the scratch pads to buff the stainless is a good idea. I'll have to try that.

Your points about (1) Repairs, (2) Maintenace, and (3) Improvements is spot on. Unfortunately, I am still stuck in the repair part of the cycle.

Incidentally, say hello to Tony Morrelli for me. He may not remember me, but I had him build a trampoline for me for a Reynolds 21 back in the 80's, and I sailed with him once in a race out of Ventura, California. His tramp work was excellent.

Hey, maybe when you do the Hawaii trip in the future, we could buddy-boat two 34's over and back! It's a thought.

Enjoy the sunshine down south. Oregon is unusually warm for December, but it is not nearly so warm and clear.

Rann

[Jmolan]

Rann, good to hear from you as always. I got this stove :Wedgewood Cooktop - 3 Burner Wedgewood Cooktop

I think it is one you show there. I like the original one on the boat and this is identical. All SS except for the burner rings.....The controls are on top and one burner is larger than the other two. I also got the stainless top cover, but man it is heavy..:-( I considered sending it back but the wife wanted to keep it. I think I learned on that one. Do not bring it on board if you do not want to carry it. It maybe harder to take it off, than to never bring it on...:-)
I have for the rigging got the extensions made and will pick them up today. They are 2 3/4" on center apart... 1/2" holes. Both 1/4" plates. And extend down to match up with the original plate at 1 3/4" x 1/2". So I should get a jump on the rig today. Looking fwd. to it believe me. The newer style distributors are deeper and a bit wider in the slot than those I showed photos of.
I will be mounting the bow pulpit, cleats, tracks, winches, starting today also. I will take the extra time to drill out the original holes and fill with epoxy ballon mixture and redrill with a bevel or camfer on top to accept a better bedding compound, and to eliminate any leakage into th plywood through these holes .
Going to Mazatlan really threw me off(the place did nothing for me except maybe make me really appreciate how nice we have it here). Funny how you can get an everyday groove of working, then returning is like starting all over again.

[Maren]

Rann,

What's the all black range is that in the upper left ?

[Rann]

Maren,

The upper left is an Atwood High Output slide-in. The three on the upper right ar Atwood Drop-in cooktops. The lower left is a Suburban Slide-in, and the lower right is another Atwood Slide-in. If you do a Google search for RV Propane Cooktops, you will find these units at various RV outlets around the country. As I mentioned in the post with these pictures, I have a two-burner unit in my 1997 Roadtrek Class B motorhome (a converted van). The unit I have is stainless and very similar to the ones produced today. The space between the burners for my unit is a little small, and there is no grate covering the entire area. I am leaning toward the unit in the lower right of those pictures. It will fit in just right for the opening I have in ETAK. The area underneath where the oven was will serve as shelving for boat galley stuff.

Atwood sent me a pdf brochure of their cooktops and ranges which I can forward to you if you like. There are detailed dimensions in it. You can reach me directly at rannmillar at gmail dot com.

Incidentally, I looked at your boat when Steve Rust wrote that it was on EBay. I contacted the seller via Ebay email to ascertain more details thinking that I might consider it in place of the total refurb I am doing on ETAK. But I decided against pursuing the idea any further and never made additonal contact. Too far away, too much to deal with with my own 34 even if it meant selling it. So, the project goes on, and I accumulate information from the internet and this forum in an effort to ease some of the work that must be done.

All the best in getting CLOUDIA back into the condition you want. We all would like know how the rotating rig works for you on her when you get it up and tuned. The Dux would work great on such a rig.

Rann

[Jmolan]

Here are a couple shots of late afternoon messing around. In the first shot you can see the fittings I will be using, On the top row the two on the left are the "old style" terminators. If you look close you can see the radius is a little smaller and the apex is a little shorter and a steeper angle. Also you can see some of the holes on both rows have inserts in them. I will add the inserts on anything that will be "pinned" into the hole. It is a real hard plastic of some sort that is suppose to save any wear on the aluminum fitting itself.
The lower distributors are all the new style and have deeper grooves as well as a touch wider. It looks like 1/4" plate we use is no problem for these. They do not make any of the old style anymore. But I will be using a few anyhow as they are plenty good and I have them already. Next couple shots just show details of what I wrote up close....(hey everyone likes pictures right?)
Next shot shows the plate mounted and the distributors in place YEA! I think I will nix the SS washers as it looks pretty industrial as it is. Can anyone tell me why should not make it so the space where the two plates join get some air space? In other words I do not want two plates of SS tight up against each other. I believe that is a recipie for corrosion and pitting and all kinds of nasty stuff. So I either need to put a washer or spacer of some sort between them, or would it be better to seal it up with a good calking. Would that stop the crud?
Come to think of it, I had quite a few 1/4" bolts break off at the head on deck that were bedded in calking. I know many of the lifeline stantion deck bolts just broke off when I went to remove them. So...there got to be a better way. It is ike the caulking cause pitting...m-m-m-m-m-
The last shot is of the newly painted (and verrrry smooooth) bottom. That whole job was a real pain and i am sorry for complaining, but I am glad to get it behind us....:-)
So now I have a question, and I would like to see if we can find out if I am nutz or maybe I am onto something.
The boat had teak or mahogonay rails that were used to hold the lashings for bow nets. I think it is standard Searunner fare. What I did not like was the amount of 3" SS wood screws that were required to secure each rail. Many many screws. And the wood rail material is pretty worn out after 30 years of sun and more thn a few power washings I bet. So here is the question:
I can see a "lip" around the inside of my ama's and main hull bow, as well a a pretty beefy edge on my deck that spans between the hulls up fwd. What I want to do is drill and oversized hole through these edges, and epoxy in some kind of tube. It would only have to be 1/4" or even less. The "tube" would have to be a fair curve. Not a 90 deree tern, mor like 45 or a bit more.... I would use this as my anchor point for lashing the nets. I could run the twin through the new hole to lash the nets with. This way you can eliminate a lot of hardware, a lot of screw holes and bedding fittings. If done right there would be no way water could enter the plywood as the "tube" would be surrounded by epoxy compound. So what do I use for a tube? I keep thinking of something like a hoola hoop made out of 1/4" stuff. I could cut it up in a bunch of pieces...well anyway. That is my latest noggon breaker.....:-)

[Jmolan]

I just found this st brion toss ite spartalk

Dynex Dux redux
I have finally started some quantitative testing on a sample of 9mm Dynex Dux that John at Colligo sent me. I have not completed the creep test but the dynamic stretch figures are in. I am getting a page together on my web site with all the gory details but I thought I would report the preliminary results here.

The purpose of my examination is to get some numbers to compare to 1x19 wire. I tried to follow the Cordage Institute's procedures but as the sample had only 28" clear of undisturbed rope I used an electronic positioning sensor called an LVDT capable of detecting .00005" movement. By adjusting for the specific weight of the rope I had estimated from Strong Ropes figure of .00055 in/in/1000lb for 11mm that 9mm should have an elongation of .00084, about equivalent to 5/16" 1x19. The tested figure (average of 20 pulls after 50 cycles to 20% of MBL was slightly better at .00078 in/in/10000lb. I have to attribute this to the possibility that the fiber is slightly more in line with the load in the smaller diameters.

One major difference I found was the hysteresis or rate of recovery after the load is removed. 1x19 will recover 90% or more of the elongation immediately and the rest over just a few seconds. Relaxed from 5,000lb to 2,000lb Dux only recovers about 60% immediately and another 30% over the next half hour to 45 minutes. It took almost 12 hours to recover all the elongation. What I think this means is that you shouldn't try to tune a rig immediately after it has been loaded heavily. If you dial in the tension before the shroud has fully recovered it will be to tight a few hours later. Also I think it is possible that the leeward shrouds might seem slightly slack immediately after a tack. I will have to examine this more closely.

The other interesting fact is the almost complete lack of torsional deformation. 1x19 will try to rotate as the lay straightens but braid remains in line. I don't think I would do away with cotter pins in the turn buckle though. :-)

Creep test begins next week and will take a couple of months.


Also here is a shot of the way the bow nets were secured with the old wood rails.....gotta come up with something new!

[Rann]

Jack,

That is some pretty detailed testing of the Dux. Are you doing that with testing equipment in San Carlos?

I started looking around for tramp net attachment information, and found most of the common means of attaching on several sites. However, take a look at how Eric Precourt built a carbon fiber tubing system in on the main hull of Sigi Stiemer's F-33 "hi5". Also, his website has dozens of construction photos of the building of his boat with lots of good ideas throughout.

Here is his website: hi5

Thanks for the detailed report on the Dux. We who want to go that route for standing rigging look forward to more details from the real world of how it is working for you on Corazón.

Rann