Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[DreamBig]

Originally Posted by jdazey

Epoxy is very particular about ratios. For small amounts of epoxy, I use this:


https://www.fisheriessupply.com/west...poxy-scale-320


Cheers,

I like this a bunch!!!! I have refrigerant scales that are pretty dang accurate, also, for the larger mixes... hmm. great info thanks.

[MicHughV]

my vote is to use smallish amounts of WEST in a large mixing container and work quickly. High temps is definitely a controlling factor.

Another option...WEST makes slow and fast hardeners..the slow hardener (206) would definitely be my choice here for large work area...but regardless, would still use smaller portions. Once that WEST starts going off, it goes off, whether on you deck or in your container..

If you can erect some kind of shade over your work area, that will also help. Even a temporary umbrella can reduce the deck temps by several degrees.

The use of a drill to mix...in a word..hell no...ok, two words.

[DreamBig]

@MicHughV ----hahahahah that's what I figured on the mixing.. I figure it would get hot and flash off very very quickly, maybe not mix that well either. I am planning on using 209 extra slow hardener, and I like Shade, It will be yet another fun engineering project.. Thanks again for the inputs, Perfect!!!

New video just went up! Remember, this is just inspecting our new boat, and planning Possible ideas for later. Also, gives me something to do during the week when we are not at the boat... Enjoy... Don't laugh too hard at Jude :-) My little Ham... Cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C5-LJnH4g0

[MicHughV]

the Piver outboard installation looked something like this...the hole in the cockpit was not that big...big enough to get the shaft and prop thru' but the main part of the engine was outside the hole. I'm guessing the hole was maybe 15" x 15" or so....it was not very big.

At the end of the day, I believe he put a diesel in, because the prop of that outboard was not very far below the water, and in rough water, tending to come out of the water....though you can get a shaft extension for those outboards now..

And then there was the issue of the fuel tank....his Honda engine used your basic 5 gallon outboard portable fuel tank... a pain in the rear end and gasoline to boot.

Outboards are not very fuel efficient at all as they run at high rpm..

It can work, but not very ideal.

A diesel install can set you back a lot of $$$....engine, shaft, prop, tankage, etc... but at the end of the day, the better solution.

[MicHughV]

I should have posted this on your other thread....

[Buzzman]

Yeah, 'pox is a bitch. It gets hard to pour when it's cold, and then doesn't mix easily, but at least the 'working time' is longer. However it also means that it will not go off correctly, or partially hardens and then other parts don't.
Tricky.
It's best to do it in shade on a hot day, and earlier in the day. Over 20degC it can be inclined to 'flash off' - or dry/harden much more rapidly. In such weather conditions, work fast and use only small quantities.
Fruit and vegetable tins are also a good container for small mixes, as they are stiffer than plastic cups or cut up soda bottles - but you have to throw them away after a single use as the residue sets off the next batch while you're still mixing it.
Blending by machine is not advisable, as it entrains air into the mix which then forms bubbles in the surface.
Even if using the slower hardener - which just gives a longer working time, once it starts to 'set off' it still goes pretty rapidly - you should still work fast.
Hence why most people use a squeegee, as this is the fastest way to spread the stuff around. Squeegee being a kind of plastic spatula thingy - like a plastic version of a metal paint-scraper. It sticks like sh!t to a blanket if you use metal scrapers, though, so don't.
I have a stack of beetroot and pinapple tins, and plastic 2L ice cream buckets on a shelf that I rinse out and keep stored for when I need to do small or large mixes. As a 'poxer, you begin to look at trash differently to 'normal' folks.
This old plastic bag? Peel ply. This old bean can? Mixing container. That old bed sheet? Hand-wiping rags. Cardboard box? Useful container for all the above.
It can even be fun, thinking about how you could possibly re-purpose something...

[catsketcher]

You can do very large jobs on your own with epoxy. I have wet out 600gm cloth over a 38ft cat on my own with no worries - and I find that epoxy is not terribly sensitive to ratios - I have used pumps on containers and electronic scales. Keep your old mixing pots and check them for peace of mind.

If it is hot I use 206 and make up mixes up to around 600 mls. Then after mixing I throw the resin onto the job, just pour it on and get it all out of the mixing pot - never leave it in. Then you just have to stay ahead of the hardening resin, no worries even with 1134 triax. Mix fast, pour it out and squeegee and don't stop.

As for decks, sheathing glass with epoxy does well over ply. Then after a light screed with epoxy and some filler (microballoons) use high build epoxy primer and then your topcoat of choice. I don't like epoxy on its own over ply - it seems to always check and split for me.

Epoxy is not a worry to use as long as you get it out of the pot quickly. If it is hot it works into the fabric really easily so you stay the same time ahead of the setting resin as when it is cold because you can wet out so much quicker. Shade is nice but they build epoxy boats in the tropics so anyone can as well, just get it out of the pot really speedily. Put the resin in the shade and put up some shade but don't worry too much about the heat and epoxy.

cheers

Phil

[Buzzman]

^^^^^^^
What he said...!!!

Gets pretty tropical here in temperate Oz too, and I wouldn't do anything out in the sun.

One tip I picked up from a YT vid is too put the containers of 'pox out in the sun in colder weather so they can warm up and thin out a bit to make it easier to pour, measure and mix.

Colder the 'pox is the harder it is to mix, and the longer it takes.

Vid I saw guy was in a basement in US somewhere with snow outside and he had a hot box, like a cardboard box with a small 40W globe in it to 'warm up' the 'pox so it would flow. Hadda be careful not to get it too hot, or it would shorten the working time once mixed, speeding up the thermal part of the reaction, apparently.

Good idea also to warm the surface of the timber or ply, as apparently that helps the 'pox soak in.

Epoxy on it's own over timber or ply is fine - ply boats been built that way for years - just be sure to roll and tip three coats, and then three coats of paint over the top.

This is fine for trailer boats that get hauled and covered. We have guys here in Oz (with high UV) that ahve used ordinary oil-based house paint for boats that are trailed. Lasts 10 years, apparently, with only occasional weekend sailing.

But immersed boats need the glass to anchor the epoxy and provide a bit of skin friction resistance.

If you scrape an 'epoxy only + paint' covered boat, you HAVE to repair it immediately, or the next time you launch it, water gets into the timber.

But epoxy MUST be covered with something that has a high UV protection, becasue 'pox doesn't,and goes yellow and brittle in a relatively short time in full sun. Then you gotta grnind it all out and recoat it....

Ask me how I know...

[DreamBig]

Thanks you two, that was exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. Today we bought a 2015 Honda 5hp four stroke for $700. Looks brand new. Short shaft, gonna go good on the 2012 14" Porta-bote I bought over the weekend for $450. I sold a trailer and took one in on trade for a net positive of $450. Sold a Delta wood lathe for $800, so, I am net positive $100, still have a usable trailer, and a new (to me Porta-bote with a 4 stroke Honda minus a lathe I haven't used in a year. Not bad) Just thought I would share, rarely ever am I that lucky,, must be some bad stuff in the forecast..

Cheers,

James

[snort]

Would there be any reason to not epoxy coat the cross-arms that connect the main hull to the amas?
I noticed on my boat that there doesn't seem to be a hint of it on exposed wood, just paint.

[Roy M]

This is a nonsequitor, but I haven't posted in a while. I have been doing a major overhaul on WILDERNESS, my Searunner 40 I built and launched in 1978. My boat was built entirely with WEST SYSTEM epoxy, and it's probably the reason it's held up so remarkably. My reason for overhaul is to make everything ready to go cruising again. Today's project is removal of the acrylic fixed portlights (windows), something I do every fifteen years, whether they need it or not (an insider joke). I'm replacing them, after getting tired of crazed plastic destroyed by ultraviolet. The new ones are going to be dark tinted laminated safety glass. It also is a chance to complete a side project of three small stained glass windows surrounding the sterncastle opening "window". Somewhere back in the archives of this thread I have pictures of the replacement process using plexiglass. Removal of the existing windows reveals the excellent condition of the original plywood. It even smells new. I use a Feintool oscillating saw to flush cut the window rims off the cabinsides, revealing the old Plexi and sealant (3M 4000Uv). After I get delivery of the glass ports, I will temporarily screw in the refurbished rims, then after curing of the sealant, remove the screws, fill the holes with epoxy, then finish paint the whole exterior with linear polyurethane paint and install the new Harken deck gear. Since I do this window replacement every fifteen years or so, it coincides with refinishing the shiny exterior skin of the boat. I've just about completed the complete repainting of the interior, bilge to overhead, with Bright side one part polyurethane. It also gave me a chance to complete the last of replacing old wire (our choices in the 70's weren't as nice as new Ancor wire cables), and finish bringing the electrical into the 21st Century. I can't wait to go sailing again. This boat will even be faster than when I launched it in 1978!

[Roy M]

Teaser shots: looking forward, starboard side of galley, salon berth and cabinets.

[Roy M]

Teaser of sterncastle. Please note how I intentionally built the deck much wider than Jim designed, so I could cantilever the sterncastle cabinside, and lower the arc of the roof. It also provided three small stained glass windows (pending).

[Roy M]

Detail showing deck to hull and cantilevered sterncastle cabinside. All of these "windows", except the large opening one (temporarily removed) are being replaced with laminated safety glass. I should have done this years ago, or when I built the boat.

[Roy M]

Oops!