Tri's or Cat's?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Could a 54 be built and fitted for around $250K?

I think closer to $400K to $500k if you did it yourself. Probably double that if you could buy one new. Or more!

[s/v Beth]

You talked me into it. I will find out the cost of producing a bare bones hull (s) for us to work with.

[mrybas]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I will if I have 3 dead serious want a 54 hammerhead people, (myself being one). Must have $$$ within 2 years of today.
Anybody else going to walk the walk?

We would need to come up with some rough ideas for a plan and total costs, but I might be interested.

[weavis]

I see this turning into a 40 hour week project and still years to complete due to work commitments and advancing years.

My suggestion. Ask Chris and others what they have or know of that is not advertised.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

[smj]

Originally Posted by happyendings

Having owned both cats and tris, I feel at least somewhat qualified to make useful comparisons and to discuss some of the issues raised in previous posts. The "twitchy bobble" is, imho, mostly a catamaran phenomenon and has its roots in two separate but sometimes interactive sets of forces. The first is obvious and well recognized, this being the result of simple geometry: in some conditions with the sea beam on (mostly), one hull will be up on the crest of the swell and the other in the trough and this condition can occillate rather rapidly. A slight change of course will substantially diminish this and the boat will be much happier but the crew will still feel the "twitchy bobble" in most near beam-on conditions. The second phenomenon is the tendency for the driven hull to switch from leeward to windward in some sea states and on various points of sail. This action can occur in a greater variety of conditions and is more subtle. Of course, the two phenomenon are not mutually exclusive.



The sea-keeping of the cruising trimaran is more like a very svelte monohull with training wheels. Any "twitchy bobble" is more likely the result of the monohull sailor experiencing a lighter, more lively and better performing vessel after having been more used to sailing at anchor. The space given up in the trimaran main hull versus the monohull can be balanced against the tri's ability to carry lighter, bulky items like sails in the amas (which should never be used for heavy stowage). As the trimaran becomes more performance oriented, the tendency is to carry one ama un-immersed at anchor, thus leading to weeble wobble (as distinct from twitchy bobble.) One can deliberately violate the prohibition against carrying heavy objects in one ama to attenuate this effect.



I hope this clears things up. Happy New Year!

So cats have the "twitchy bobble", tris the "weeble wobble" and monohulls the "roll wallow and broach". Clear as mud Z

[Polux]

Originally Posted by happyendings

Having owned both cats and tris, I feel at least somewhat qualified to make useful comparisons and to discuss some of the issues raised in previous posts. The "twitchy bobble" is, imho, mostly a catamaran phenomenon and has its roots in two separate but sometimes interactive sets of forces. The first is obvious and well recognized, this being the result of simple geometry: in some conditions with the sea beam on (mostly), one hull will be up on the crest of the swell and the other in the trough and this condition can occillate rather rapidly. A slight change of course will substantially diminish this and the boat will be much happier but the crew will still feel the "twitchy bobble" in most near beam-on conditions. The second phenomenon is the tendency for the driven hull to switch from leeward to windward in some sea states and on various points of sail. This action can occur in a greater variety of conditions and is more subtle. Of course, the two phenomenon are not mutually exclusive.

The sea-keeping of the cruising trimaran is more like a very svelte monohull with training wheels. Any "twitchy bobble" is more likely the result of the monohull sailor experiencing a lighter, more lively and better performing vessel after having been more used to sailing at anchor. The space given up in the trimaran main hull versus the monohull can be balanced against the tri's ability to carry lighter, bulky items like sails in the amas (which should never be used for heavy stowage). As the trimaran becomes more performance oriented, the tendency is to carry one ama un-immersed at anchor, thus leading to weeble wobble (as distinct from twitchy bobble.) One can deliberately violate the prohibition against carrying heavy objects in one ama to attenuate this effect.

I hope this clears things up. ..Happy New Year!

Nice post
Happy new year to you and all

[s/v Beth]

Sounds like to me I am in the market for a tri. Small living accommodation below- great, we only go below to sleep and get out of the rain. We do like some area to lay out in (tramp) and in good weather I will sleep out there.
Going fast and shallow draft: esp beach-able, right down my ally.
Less likely to flip for a given displacement- icing on the cake.
Need more of a boat than a condo- and that the tri acts more like a mono ( which I have sailed on for 30 years)

[deckofficer]

newt,

I assume your Valiant probably acted like my Cal 40 during gusting conditions and just maybe the "twitchy bobble" is how happyendings describes it. Again I'm only going on my very little experience on my brother's Corsair, but when sailing on Lake Tahoe during a typical mountain gusty air day, each gust translated immediately to increase in boat speed. Those same conditions would only cause a bit more heel on my Cal and if the gust died there would be no increase in speed, just the heel.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Sounds like to me I am in the market for a tri. Small living accommodation below- great, we only go below to sleep and get out of the rain. We do like some area to lay out in (tramp) and in good weather I will sleep out there.
Going fast and shallow draft: esp beach-able, right down my ally.
Less likely to flip for a given displacement- icing on the cake.
Need more of a boat than a condo- and that the tri acts more like a mono ( which I have sailed on for 30 years)

Haaa! Now you're headed for being spoiled. Once you sail a tri you'll never be as happy with other boats.

BTW if you ever come east during the May through October period just PM me and I'll invite you for a sail on my DF 1200. That's my video Polux posted in post #24 of this thread.

[SailFastTri]

Here's another one of mine. Not exciting but just nice http://youtu.be/4VtVpejdRbI.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Here's another one of mine. Not exciting but just nice http://youtu.be/4VtVpejdRbI.

"404 Not Found"

was it this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti3s7PjI2Vo

Or this one beating?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrdQ-j7FRiI

Or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VtVpejdRbI

[Polux]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

..Lake Tahoe during a typical mountain gusty air day, each gust translated immediately to increase in boat speed. Those same conditions would only cause a bit more heel on my Cal and if the gust died there would be no increase in speed, just the heel.

Not wanting to go out of topic but those increases in speed with gusts are typical of light powerful sailboats, being them trimarans, catamarans or monohulls.

[Roy M]

The multihullers are quietly chuckling.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

"

To be honest, I thought they'd be much faster. 9.5 in around 15kts apparent, and under what looks like a dedicated light wind reaching sail.

Here's our cat, 9 knots in 10-11 kts apparent (and true). And note, we have no reacher, or dedicated light wind sails, this is just main and jib:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dHkY_XaSGk

I know, the mainsail looks pretty bad, the day started with around 4-5 kts wind, so the halyard tension was light. Needs another half turn on the winch in 10 knots.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Roy M

The multihullers are quietly chuckling.

I don't understand why. You guys are just used to see only old heavy slow monohulls and it seems you think modern performance ones go at the same pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUxe3YmKgvs

By the way, this is not a racing boat but a performance cruiser and this one particularly is a charter boat.