U'all Talked Me Out of a Lagoon - Leopard 46 ?

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

It looks nice inside. But why is there a model of a monohull there?

Good point! Didn't notice it before! That is funny. Well spotted Sherlock!!

[schoonerdog]

For scuba divers

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

For scuba divers

So what do you think of the Leopard?

[schoonerdog]

I think that they are strongly constructed, with very good conduits for electricity and plumbing and access panels to just about everything. I think the quality of the interior layout is good. It's D/L isn't bad, but on the charter layout, I frankly don't like the lack of water tight compartments forward. I see the advantages of having a dedicated sailing cockpit above with lines led away from the kids below, but frankly the reason they came up with biminis was to protect people from the sun, and I've known people who buddy sailed with me at times with schooners and they couldn't put a bimini up and were always fried. This high up helm might interfere with visibility in parking in marinas, which is where you are most likely to
damage it. Basically it seems to me to be aimed a little to much to the charter market (which is 90 percent of their targeted sales), trying to squeeze as many people as possible aboard and trying to keep the crew as seperate from the paying passangers as possible. Again, it's not a bad boat, and there are ways around all of those issues (the non charter boat doesn't have births up forward, you can station people on your quarters when docking to yell up whatever you couldn't see, and you could wear hats and plenty of sunscreen or drive through remote autohelm most of the time). Were I to choose again, in your size range, I would look at Broad Blue, Privilege, PDQ and St Francis (the difference between 46 ft and 50 ft isn't really that much for sailing). All of those boats exceed Leapord in the quality of their interior finish (except for st francis which probably equals it) and are geared more toward individual owners.

[Etienne]

Schoonerdog, I am not sure what you mean about 'being fried' steering or sitting at the helm-station. There is a hard bimini over the helm.
Or am I maybe misunderstanding what you refer to?

BTW Thanks for the comments...

[schoonerdog]

Your Right! Duh! Nice hard bimini, no problems with sun there.

[Frank Artville]

[/quote]. Were I to choose again, in your size range, I would look at Broad Blue, Privilege, PDQ and St Francis (the difference between 46 ft and 50 ft isn't really that much for sailing). All of those boats exceed Leapord in the quality of their interior finish (except for st francis which probably equals it) and are geared more toward individual owners.[/quote]

---------------
I think the Leopard 46' would outperform any of these cats, and I think the Leopard 46' is a 'sexy' catamaran in terms of looks!
In terms of price / design / quality, the PDQ, Privilege, St Francis and BB (which model by the way?) are considerably more expensive. I was impressed by the Cruising World article and others, saying the Leopard 46' is a real 'sailors catamaran' that performs very well. The pen of Gino Morelli and Pete Melvin has spoken once again.
My choice would be a Leopard 46'.

[schoonerdog]

At 24000 lbs the Leapord has a D/L of 122, which isn't spritely. Privilege has a claimed D/L of 115 and PDQ is around 117, St Francis 118 and Broad Blue never pretended to be fast. They all would be classified as luxury catamarans which flying a spinnaker would do well in terms of performance. I don't think cruising world has ever written an unflattering article, the one about the St Francis 50 simply gushed when she won Boat of the Year last year. Price points I think you could get all of them, around 2 years old, for around 500k with a bit of bargaining.

[Etienne]

Schoonerdog,

Apologies for the uneducated question - but what is D/L and how do you calculate it?

Oops, and while you're at it
L/B
SA/D
I, J, E, P
DWL
BWL

All found in this article on the Leopard:
Sailing Magazine

Thanks for your kind (deciphering) help...

[schoonerdog]

light Displacement / Length of water line. D / L Ratio

Basically something short and heavy would have a large number and something long and fast would have a low number. A very fast cat would have a D/L less than 100. A slower catamaran would have a D/L over 130. Gunboat which is probably one of the fastest production cats that you could buy has a D/L of 77. African cats which aren't pure carbon fiber speed demons have D/Ls in the 90s. A few years ago when I purchased my boat one of the things I did look at was comparing their D/L. Speed isn't everything, comfort I would think matters more, quality of construction certainly matters more as does safety, but using modern manufacturing composites, they can make a light and fast catamaran that is very comfortable.

One of the bigger issues that makes a difference for heavier boats is their ability to point. Here's a great article on how weight affects the ability to point well (go to weather) for cats African Cats: comfortable lightweight performance leisure catamarans. And the ability to go to weather decently is important. If you were fanatic about performance then I'd say look at outremer, shuttleworth, and african cats as three cats which have amazing performance. Actually, check out african cats anyway, because I think they are the worlds coolest catamaran and they are made in South Africa.

[Etienne]

Thank you Schoonerdog.

Now here is a funny question from a South African to an American (I think!) - why is it that South Africa seem to build some of the finest cats in the world? I am fairly new in this game - so from your perspective why is that? We are not even a historical seafaring nation like the French or the British.
It can't just be because of our rough seas. Do sailors actually view our country as high tech, research oriented and cutting edge in the products and services originating from here?

Also, most Americans don't even know where South Africa is Present company excluded, of course!! No offence meant!

[schoonerdog]

South Africa got the reputation of putting together tough, well built, reasonably priced boats. Eventually they retooled and added sophistication to their layouts. Saying your boat was built in South Africa is like saying your SUV was built in the Himalayas. As they say, success breeds more success. Your government must have had something to do with it as well as well as good business leaders.

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Your government must have had something to do with it

Ha, ha, ha, ha, he, he, ho, he!!
Very funny Schoonerdog!
I doubt if they can even spell "Catamaran Industry".

But you're right about the rest - enthusiasm combined with research and high-tech materials was the key here. In fact the times I have been in Europe and the US, I have been frustrated how low-tech and 'behind the times' these countries are in certain aspects. I guess Africa (ok, South Africa) has the advantage of rapid development combined with a propensity of being early adopters of new technology.

Thanks for the interaction - I really appreciate your comments and feedback.

[svOnWatch]

Looks like a nice layout. What mast height? What engine size? Where and how will you be using it? 3 bladed props? Repeaters for inside steering in bad weather? Speaking from personal experience, these are some points to consider before going cruising.

Chris
s/v On Watch
Lagoon 410

[cchesley]

When comparing D/L, what numbers are you using? It's my experience that manufacturer's numbers are usually just a tad optimistic. Are you applying them after fuel, water, generator, stores are added. These are never (as far as I know) included in manufacturer's numbers. Perhaps it won't matter relatively speaking but to some degree it does. (i.e. 3500# added to a 10,000 # light ship vs 3500# added to a 23000# light ship figue will yield different D/L numbers)

My MC 41 weight is listed @ 12,200 lbs with 7000# payload for disp. of 19,200. I presume my weight falls somewhere between the two numbers but would use around 18,000-18,500 estimate. Depending on what I used, my D/L is radically affected. I seldom see real world numbers on most production boats, esp. cats.