Upgrading from a Lagoon 410 for a bit more pace?

[Looking4Neptune]

Take a look at the Catanas. I was on a Catana 42 for about a month in the med and it is a very comfortable boat. A year later, when I was sailing Panama to the Marquesas on an Amel Super Maramu (solid, comfy, 51 ft mono, but not at all fast) that same Catana was doing the same journey. Took us 28 days, them 18 days. They regularly did over 200nm per day. Boat points well with dagger boards. For live-aboard cruising, I am not sure I am a fan of where the helm is placed (two helms, back corners). Great for visibility but on night-watch, when the weather is poor, you are exposed. Last I checked, that boat was in Brisbane. Owners (great couple!) are from Taz.

Another to look at is the Outremer. Even faster. Daggerboards, carbon. Pricey but very nice. La Vagabond is on an Outremer 45 and here is a blog where they hit

22 knots

in the med!

[Bon Temps]

I am surprised on how many people here are committing on the Seawind 1160 but do not own one. I have sailed mine from San Diago to Grenada and hav3 been on many Lagoons. All I have to say is that there is a reason the Lagoons are significantly cheaper than the Seawinds. They are significantly cheating design and sailing. An asymmetrical hull performs better than a straight one. There is a reason Seawind has won boat of the year a couple of times. That being said, if you have the money I would suggest the 1250 for the extra room, resale, and speed.

[ozsailer]

Bon Temps, big statement to say a company is "cheating" Care to please expand your claims to enlighten those who are unaware of this.


Greg H
Lagoon 440.

[Bon Temps]

Sorry Greg, made a typing error. Was intending to type “cheaper”. I know it is offensive to bad mouth someone’s boat. The Lagoons are priced at a good price point.

[ozsailer]

G;day Bon Temps, no dramas, I know what its like to have dyslexic fingers. Even though I own a Lagoon and love it, there are shortfalls, as with any boat but I do scratch my head at times and wonder what the hell Lagoon were thinking at the time and with some of their more current designs.


Greg H
Lagoon 440

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Bon Temps

I am surprised on how many people here are committing on the Seawind 1160 but do not own one. I have sailed mine from San Diago to Grenada and hav3 been on many Lagoons. All I have to say is that there is a reason the Lagoons are significantly cheaper than the Seawinds. They are significantly cheating design and sailing. An asymmetrical hull performs better than a straight one. There is a reason Seawind has won boat of the year a couple of times. That being said, if you have the money I would suggest the 1250 for the extra room, resale, and speed.

Hum, from my memory Seawinds were not faster than our L 400 in go east rally. If anything they were slower when comparing progress with same reefing. We were crew of 2 only and first overnight sail right there so we kept our sail at absolute minimum.

The other rally i remember was ARC and Seawinds were slowest cats out there.

Anyway, keep dreaming Seawinds are fast ocean cruisers.

[Factor]

I seem to recall that Talisker . (Seawind 1160) was first or second boat in. Averaged 8.5 knots. Two reefs in the whole way. Seem to recall two other seawind we’re in top 5.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Factor

I seem to recall that Talisker . (Seawind 1160) was first or second boat in. Averaged 8.5 knots. Two reefs in the whole way. Seem to recall two other seawind we’re in top 5.

Your info is incorrect. Talisker is extended for 1.2 m and had a racing crew and flew smaller spinnaker on day 1. Second seawind was faster than us.

We have arrived with third seawind and there was fourth and last one that came next day, i think. When compared speed with 2 reefs, L400 at least matched Seawind speed which surprised me. I put it down to Seawinds being overloaded for passage.

[Factor]

Mate. I know what ralisker is. I’ve sailed on it. And I wouldn’t call the owner and friends a racing crew. Forget the who had what reefs stuff. Seems 3 seawind were faster than you. If they are “dreaming” of being quick ocean passage makers I am really don’t understand your position.

I’m not having a go at you just correcting this

statement. “”””Hum, from my memory Seawinds were not faster than our L 400 in go east rally.””

”” Which you now acknowledge was incorrect.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

is there a compromise in mono hulls where some you arent always on list/lean when under way but sail a bit faster than a cat?

Ill ask in monos as well.

Normal monos do not list much once you are at the same wind angles a cat can sail.....

The list only gets strong when you are close to the wind, like 45 degree true, where a cat can not go. At 60-70 the list is not uncomfortable.

A 42´cruising mono will be slower than the same size cat and also much smaller. This if you sail both boats efficiently. Although, real world results from for example the ARC indicate that speed/length for cruising boats is about the same for cats and monos. My guess is people are a little more conservative sailing their cats. But if you go to like 55' then you have better speed, same amount of space, albeit in a very different layout, and about the same sail area to handle. Same cost also.

Or buy a semi-cat like mineBut then, list is included, but you go everywhere FAST.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Factor

Mate. I know what ralisker is. I’ve sailed on it. And I wouldn’t call the owner and friends a racing crew. Forget the who had what reefs stuff. Seems 3 seawind were faster than you. If they are “dreaming” of being quick ocean passage makers I am really don’t understand your position.

I’m not having a go at you just correcting this ”” Which you now acknowledge was incorrect.

that was not a race and everyone was motoring. So absolute times are meaningless. My point is that one should test boat in realistic conditions and my experience is that our boat did as well as any other or better in difficult conditions and comment that Seawind speed is way above Lagoon is laughable when sailing with same risk level (read same reef levels). Sailing with full sails in 40 kn true is in my opinion not relaxing and outright dangerous.

[MartinR]

This is basic physics. If you have a more racy boat, with narrower hulls, it will react much more to loading. So once you are at cruising displacement, the racier boat may end up slower than a boat designed with fuller hulls. The faster the boat, the more you have to think about weight. same for monos and cats by the way.

I mean Lagoons are reasonably fast boats when lightly loaded, for example as charter boats. Most monos can not compete. But once you have added all the "good to have" stuff, the boat will be much slower. The best way to get the boat to actually sail, is to get rid of the RIB and outboard, davits, folding bikes, spare toothbrushes.....

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

Even the seawind 1060 light is only $650000nzd new, Ive seen a used one that looks as new for $380000.

I don't think Seawind has ever made a "seawind 1060 light". They made a Seawind 1000 (10 m LOA), a Seawind 1000 XL and XL2 (although both had stern extensions making them 10.7 m LOA), and a Seawind 1160 Deluxe and 1160 Lite (11.6 m LOA). The Deluxe has been in production since 2004, and reportedly the Lite was launched in 2014 (maybe 2015 first production?). I've seen some Deluxe version used boats for sale in the US, but never a used Lite. We commissioned a Lite new build last year and it's currently on a transport ship heading to US. We owned a Seawind 1000 for 12 years prior, and the new Lite will just be an upsize of everything we liked. Plus we owned and raced a couple of Corsair trimaran before the Seawind and really appreciate a good sailing boat. The Seawind 1000 sailed well, and we are putting performance sails on the Lite so we won't be slow while island hopping!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Normal monos do not list

I think you mean heel. Listing is caused by an unexpected factor that a vessel is not designed for such as taking on water. ,

like 45 degree true, where a cat can not go.

Seriously??

[fabgo]

I'll stick to comparing the Lagoon 410 vs Seawind 1160, since that was the OPs question.

I looked up the specs real quick.

Both boats displace around 15,000 lbs.

Both boats have a similar waterline length (lagoon is a foot or so longer).

Looks like the Lagoon also has significantly more sail area (950 sqft vs. 800).

(Data from sailboatdata.com.)

I fail to see why the Seawind would be the faster boat.