Vision 444

[Matt Johnson]

Sailaway's positions may be filled - of the 28 orders placed so far - but there are available build slots from the dealer in the UK. Last I heard, their first available boat was towards the end of 2022.

-Matt

[3cdad]

I wish them the best but IMO, the 1370 has it beat. The helm position is only an issue on paper. Once you actually experience it (I've sailed a 1260) you realize that the visibility is excellent, and the dual helms allow you to immediately shift sides by walking a few steps. And, since I'm usually the guy sitting at the helm, I found it to be much more enjoyable being part of the cockpit (and saloon when the trifold door is up) than being separated from it. The large, forward opening windows on the 1370 are also an underestimated feature.

The large trifold doors create a large single space combining the cockpit and saloon. The only downside to that is that it reduces the space on that cockpit/saloon wall for galley counter space, but that's a tradeoff I'll gladly take.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by 3cdad

I wish them the best but IMO, the 1370 has it beat. The helm position is only an issue on paper. Once you actually experience it

No… actually still don’t like it. There’s a reason that nobody’s copying this great idea. Even some newer designs like Catana’s Ocean series have gone to a reasonably raised single helm. This Vision 444 likewise has a similar helm, with all lines and winches in one place - right at the helm. No side to side/back and forth to tack. (or to the back of the cockpit like the 1600!). Interestingly, Seawind did not stick with their look-through-the-cabin helms when they designed the 1600.

I was amused when recently watching a Ruby Rose episode, and they were in some rough water on the 1260. The view of the horizon pitching up and down was especially pronounced when looking through the cabin windows. My wife immediately noticed and said that would make her green for sure. Then we both laughed when he mentioned his crackers were starting to come back up!

I see the Seawind product as a value priced performance cruiser without much competition in their niche. That concept alone fills their order book. Unfortunately, some of their design choices have left us looking in other directions even though we like the Seawind concept.

Oh - and yes, I fully agree that the forward opening windows on the 1370 would probably be amazing at anchor.

[3cdad]

Seawind has indeed found a very large "niche" with the 1260 and 1370. Last I checked, the 1370 was up to over 60 pre-orders, booking into 2026 at this point. All boats are a series of compromises and tradeoffs, and every buyer has their own priorities. For many, obviously, the benefits of their helm design outweigh the costs. Aside from points already made, the lower helm also allows the center of effort to be lower. I've sat in the raised helm of several FPs and Lagoons, impressed with the view and depressed by the sailing performance. But even most of those raised helms can only see half of the sea in front of you when the foresail is deployed. On a 1260/1370, being able to see under the foresail, or simply being able to take a few level steps over to the other helm quickly solves that problem. I'm sure that the very protected and safe helms are even more appreciated in bad weather or heavy seas.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

No… actually still don’t like it. There’s a reason that nobody’s copying this great idea. Even some newer designs like Catana’s Ocean series have gone to a reasonably raised single helm. This Vision 444 likewise has a similar helm, with all lines and winches in one place - right at the helm. No side to side/back and forth to tack. (or to the back of the cockpit like the 1600!). Interestingly, Seawind did not stick with their look-through-the-cabin helms when they designed the 1600.

I was amused when recently watching a Ruby Rose episode, and they were in some rough water on the 1260. The view of the horizon pitching up and down was especially pronounced when looking through the cabin windows. My wife immediately noticed and said that would make her green for sure. Then we both laughed when he mentioned his crackers were starting to come back up!

I see the Seawind product as a value priced performance cruiser without much competition in their niche. That concept alone fills their order book. Unfortunately, some of their design choices have left us looking in other directions even though we like the Seawind concept.

Oh - and yes, I fully agree that the forward opening windows on the 1370 would probably be amazing at anchor.

I just feel the 2 helm stations take up too much space. Not a fan of galley down either, but please lets not debate that again! Also they just look old fashioned, not a fan of their lines. Are the Seawinds really that much cheaper?

The front opening door on our Leopard 40 is the best!!! It was a bit of a nuisance on our 44 as the wind blew straight onto the stove! But with the stove on the other side now and in the front that is no longer a problem!

[Bucket]

Hello everyone,
My wife and I are living in Knysna, SA until our Vision 444 (#11-Mira) is completed around the end of November. The boat we are getting is so much better than what was seen in James' videos. The advancements have been in leaps and bounds.
While we are enjoying living this amazing country, we are posting super short "Feature of Day" videos to our YouTube channel.

Have a watch and let me know if anyone has any specific questions.
By the way, build quality is impeccable!

On A New Tack YouTube Channel

Feature of the Day playlist

Eventually, we will post videos of a walkthrough tour (shorter this time, I swear!) and details from our Atlantic Crossing on the boat.

Hope you enjoy!
Mike and Sue

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Hello everyone,
My wife and I are living in Knysna, SA until our Vision 444 (#11-Mira) is completed around the end of November. The boat we are getting is so much better than what was seen in James' videos. The advancements have been in leaps and bounds.
While we are enjoying living this amazing country, we are posting super short "Feature of Day" videos to our YouTube channel.

Have a watch and let me know if anyone has any specific questions.
By the way, build quality is impeccable!

On A New Tack YouTube Channel

Feature of the Day playlist

Eventually, we will post videos of a walkthrough tour (shorter this time, I swear!) and details from our Atlantic Crossing on the boat.

Hope you enjoy!
Mike and Sue

Congrats on the new boat! Looks fantastic & will be nice to see your walkthrough when it’s all completed. How much solar are you putting up top? Did you eliminate propane and go all electric? Would be interesting to hear you go through which options you choose and which ones you passed on.

[Bucket]

We decided to max out on solar, which is 8 panels and just under 3000 watts. We also will have 21KW-hr of Li-Ion batteries. There is an option to add a fifth 200Ahr, but I don't think we will need it. If we are wrong it is easy to add, but for now we'd rather have the storage space.

We have gone with the new carbon solar support arms which extend aft over the dingy davit. We will be the second boat to have that. This pushes 6 panels aft of the main sheet blocks and allows us to have easier access to the boom without reducing the solar panel count and without having to worry about shading of the panels.

We are going (almost) all electric cooking. We will still have a small bottle propane grill on the transom for grilling and for backup in case there is a problem with the electric. We have decided to order the boat as 230V/50Hz, which has made it super easy to pick out appliances here in South Africa. Going 230V also allows the two Victron Inverters to produce up to 10kW of AC power (as well as redundancy in case one fails) instead of 8KW when at 120V.

We have two single plate induction countertop models which we will keep in a drawer when not being used. We did two singles instead of one double for redundancy. We also got a all-in-one microwave/grill/steamer/convection oven from Siemens, which will be countertop model as well.

We decided to go with all countertop models so that if/when something fails, we just get another countertop model and don't have to find the one model that fits the same opening, etc.

We will have two 12K BTU Air-Cons, a 9kg capacity washer and a 9kg capacity dryer, a dive compressor, an espresso maker and countertop icemaker. For refrigeration, we will have one fridge unit and one freezer unit forward, a "drink" mini-fridge by the cockpit door and a cold-plate in the insulated seat of the cockpit, which we can turn into a large freezer for passages, etc.

And as a teaser, wait until I get a chance to explain the rigging changes that have been put in place!! I may wait until I can do a video when the boat is actually ours.

Mike

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Bucket

We decided to max out on solar, which is 8 panels and just under 3000 watts. We also will have 21KW-hr of Li-Ion batteries. There is an option to add a fifth 200Ahr, but I don't think we will need it. If we are wrong it is easy to add, but for now we'd rather have the storage space.

We have gone with the new carbon solar support arms which extend aft over the dingy davit. We will be the second boat to have that. This pushes 6 panels aft of the main sheet blocks and allows us to have easier access to the boom without reducing the solar panel count and without having to worry about shading of the panels.

We are going (almost) all electric cooking. We will still have a small bottle propane grill on the transom for grilling and for backup in case there is a problem with the electric. We have decided to order the boat as 230V/50Hz, which has made it super easy to pick out appliances here in South Africa. Going 230V also allows the two Victron Inverters to produce up to 10kW of AC power (as well as redundancy in case one fails) instead of 8KW when at 120V.

We have two single plate induction countertop models which we will keep in a drawer when not being used. We did two singles instead of one double for redundancy. We also got a all-in-one microwave/grill/steamer/convection oven from Siemens, which will be countertop model as well.

We decided to go with all countertop models so that if/when something fails, we just get another countertop model and don't have to find the one model that fits the same opening, etc.

We will have two 12K BTU Air-Cons, a 9kg capacity washer and a 9kg capacity dryer, a dive compressor, an espresso maker and countertop icemaker. For refrigeration, we will have one fridge unit and one freezer unit forward, a "drink" mini-fridge by the cockpit door and a cold-plate in the insulated seat of the cockpit, which we can turn into a large freezer for passages, etc.

And as a teaser, wait until I get a chance to explain the rigging changes that have been put in place!! I may wait until I can do a video when the boat is actually ours.

Mike

Sounds pretty damn fantastic, I’m looking forward to seeing the walkthrough of the finished product. They build some awesome catamarans down in that part of the world. I noticed that Kinetic KC54 next to the 444 in one of your videos, that’s a stunner as well. Cheers!

[Dahveed]

I saw one at the Annapolis Boat Show. I liked it. Why? Engines under the rear cabin beds means lots of room to service them. Starboard hull had a workshop in the very front of the bow accessed from the master shower. Doorways were designed for a regular sized person to use.

Price was $870k-ish. Probably $950k for the build out like the one at the show (Volvo Penta engines with larger second alternators). The price is NOT locked in when you order it, so expect it to increase. I think the next available hull was in 2025, but the broker (Amy) thought they might be openings before that if some people canceled. Other people on the list do not want to move up.

It was an impressive looking boat. You can save about $54k if you take delivery in SA and sail it home. The one at the show had done that. I believe the gentleman hired a captain and hand to help him sail it to the US.

Not sure why this appears to have some weird characters in the text. Sorry about that.

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by Bucket

We decided to max out on solar, which is 8 panels and just under 3000 watts. We also will have 21KW-hr of Li-Ion batteries. There is an option to add a fifth 200Ahr, but I don't think we will need it. If we are wrong it is easy to add, but for now we'd rather have the storage space.

We have gone with the new carbon solar support arms which extend aft over the dingy davit. We will be the second boat to have that. This pushes 6 panels aft of the main sheet blocks and allows us to have easier access to the boom without reducing the solar panel count and without having to worry about shading of the panels.

We are going (almost) all electric cooking. We will still have a small bottle propane grill on the transom for grilling and for backup in case there is a problem with the electric. We have decided to order the boat as 230V/50Hz, which has made it super easy to pick out appliances here in South Africa. Going 230V also allows the two Victron Inverters to produce up to 10kW of AC power (as well as redundancy in case one fails) instead of 8KW when at 120V.

We have two single plate induction countertop models which we will keep in a drawer when not being used. We did two singles instead of one double for redundancy. We also got a all-in-one microwave/grill/steamer/convection oven from Siemens, which will be countertop model as well.

We decided to go with all countertop models so that if/when something fails, we just get another countertop model and don't have to find the one model that fits the same opening, etc.

We will have two 12K BTU Air-Cons, a 9kg capacity washer and a 9kg capacity dryer, a dive compressor, an espresso maker and countertop icemaker. For refrigeration, we will have one fridge unit and one freezer unit forward, a "drink" mini-fridge by the cockpit door and a cold-plate in the insulated seat of the cockpit, which we can turn into a large freezer for passages, etc.

And as a teaser, wait until I get a chance to explain the rigging changes that have been put in place!! I may wait until I can do a video when the boat is actually ours.

Mike

Do you by chance have a spreadsheet or some other doc that you'd be willing to share wrt your electricity requirements? We're planning to do something similar but you're way more advanced than we are...

[Zephyr_EU]

Some new videos/walktroughs of the Vision 444 SE version have been put online :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHWp93nxwds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-CEPOT6nCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3j81J0DCx4

@Bucket I see some modifications that you showed on your boat (youtube channel) , that apparently found their way towards the new SE version . Is that right ?

Are you still happy with the boat and the company that made it ? Build quality , Aftersales etc. ?
I am in the market for a boat , probably 2025 onwards .

HH44 (too expensive for what you get?)
Explocat (52? bit too big for a sailing couple I guess)
Vision 444 ... ?

[Zephyr_EU]

I can not seem to find a way to edit my previous post .
Vision has now released a couple more videos of their Vision 444 SE .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHWp93nxwds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-CEPOT6nCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3j81J0DCx4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRY1p7fmQh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxPpPs45N0

@Bucket I see some modifications that you showed on your boat (youtube channel) , that apparently found their way towards the new SE version . Is that right ?

Are you still happy with the boat and the company that made it ? Build quality , Aftersales etc. ?
I am in the market for a boat , probably 2025 onwards .

HH44 (too expensive for what you get?)
Explocat (52? bit too big for a sailing couple I guess)
Vision 444 ... ?