Waiting lists and lead times...

[SoPacBound]

There is a YouTube channel called "The O'Kellys". In their latest episode the guy mentioned that the waiting times for new Catamarans have been getting shorter.

I don't know if that is true, but it would certainly change my plans somewhat looking for a catamaran. I thought my only chance for the next 2 years was getting lucky or maybe buying a relatively new cat coming out of charter.

Any thoughts or predictions for the next 2 years?

[mattinacan]

I am in line for an Outremer now, December 2026, i deposited twelve months ago. From what I can tell the high end cats, Outremer, HH, Balance, ITA, even Seawind all have wait lists pushing late 2025, 2026 and even 2027. What I consider the lower end condo production cats, Leopard, Lagoon, Bali, FP, they seem to have available slots in 2024. I also keep getting emails from Nautitech about available 2024 slots, I consider them sort of middle of the pack in terms of build quality. They are trying to get people to reserve slots on the new 48 they are launching that admittedly looks really nice. The used market is abysmal for high end cats from what I can tell. There are some Outremers available but a 3 cabin used 51 is listing for $1.3M which I think is madness. Others probably know more, but I am in the mix right now and this has been my personal experience. Best of luck!

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by SoPacBound

There is a YouTube channel called "The O'Kellys". In their latest episode the guy mentioned that the waiting times for new Catamarans have been getting shorter.

I don't know if that is true, but it would certainly change my plans somewhat looking for a catamaran. I thought my only chance for the next 2 years was getting lucky or maybe buying a relatively new cat coming out of charter.

Any thoughts or predictions for the next 2 years?

I can concur with Mattinacan, the lists for the production type cats has indeed softened back to more historical norms, and you might sneak up the list because people back out. The "good stuff" that is higher end is still way out there and people are not backing out.

What I would say though is that builders are not able to give you a guaranteed price for builds out past 18-24 months, so many of them are not even accepting orders until they can let you lock in. They'll let you put a small $10k or so deposit down, but you have the option back out if the price increases over X amount. The have more demand that they can handle, which will continue to drive the prices higher until an equilibrium is reached.

[Sand crab]

You need to get on some brokers mailing lists. I get emails about new build slots that's just opened up for boats to be delivered this year or the next fairly frequently. Also there's notifications about used (almost new and kinda special) cats coming to market soon.



And what's a Hoby Cat? A friend wants to know.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You need to get on some brokers mailing lists. I get emails about new build slots that's just opened up for boats to be delivered this year or the next fairly frequently. Also there's notifications about used (almost new and kinda special) cats coming to market soon.



And what's a Hoby Cat? A friend wants to know.

Yes if you want a Lagoon, FP, Leopard, Seawind & the like you can definitely get one quicker than 2025. But then again there are hundreds available used on Yacthworld already.

[mattinacan]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Yes if you want a Lagoon, FP, Leopard, Seawind & the like you can definitely get one quicker than 2025. But then again there are hundreds available used on Yacthworld already.

I wouldn't lump Seawind into that group, they are nice and sporty. There are only a few used available right now, and i'm not sure about their other models but the new 1370 is reserved out to at least December 2026, maybe later they've not even finished hull 1 yet and they've sold like 75 hulls.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by mattinacan

I wouldn't lump Seawind into that group, they are nice and sporty. There are only a few used available right now, and i'm not sure about their other models but the new 1370 is reserved out to at least December 2026, maybe later they've not even finished hull 1 yet and they've sold like 75 hulls.

It’s not a knock at all on Seawind (or any of the others for that matter). They are absolutely great cats but it’s just a shear volume proposition…all of these brands will have fallout from buyers. I was even offered an HH where someone’s life circumstances have changed. The probability of being able to get a boat sooner goes up when the production numbers are higher, and Seawind is a high production builder.

[mattinacan]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

It’s not a knock at all on Seawind (or any of the others for that matter). They are absolutely great cats but it’s just a shear volume proposition…all of these brands will have fallout from buyers. I was even offered an HH where someone’s life circumstances have changed. The probability of being able to get a boat sooner goes up when the production numbers are higher, and Seawind is a high production builder.

That's true, and I know Seawind has struggled greatly completing boats during covid so I hope they can get it going again, they have a ton of people waiting with deposits down.

[Mark424]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You need to get on some brokers mailing lists. I get emails about new build slots that's just opened up for boats to be delivered this year or the next fairly frequently. Also there's notifications about used (almost new and kinda special) cats coming to market soon.
.

That's true, they'll go to the others in line first, but some have planned their sabbatical, retirement, funding around their original date, so some actually don't want to move up.

A friend got a call about 9 months ago from a Bali dealer they talked to at a boat show, not about someone giving up a build slot, but the boat was done and delivered and the owner had trouble with the final payments and/or other change in plans, so he got it already, had to take the other person's options and add what he wanted aftermarket, but he got it in 8 months, not 2.5 years. Not frequent, but it does happen.

[SoPacBound]

Thank you for the input. Can any one recommend reputable brokers in Australia/Nieu Zealand?

[SoPacBound]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You need to get on some brokers mailing lists. I get emails about new build slots that's just opened up for boats to be delivered this year or the next fairly frequently. Also there's notifications about used (almost new and kinda special) cats coming to market soon.



And what's a Hoby Cat? A friend wants to know.

Hobie my only Catamaran experience...

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by SoPacBound

Hobie my only Catamaran experience...

You actually will find your Hobie experience valuable even on a larger cat.
It means you know what to do when stuck in a tack and in other situations.
Good luck with your boat search.

[Sand crab]

I got an email just last week about some new build slots opening up and had another a few months ago. Those boats are out there. For instance I got an advance notice of a slightly used Balance 526 coming on the market awhile back. That boat was presold and never made it to market. If someone wants a new or near new cat then they need to get on the mailing list.

[3cdad]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

It’s not a knock at all on Seawind (or any of the others for that matter). They are absolutely great cats but it’s just a shear volume proposition…all of these brands will have fallout from buyers. I was even offered an HH where someone’s life circumstances have changed. The probability of being able to get a boat sooner goes up when the production numbers are higher, and Seawind is a high production builder.

I wish Seawind was a high production builder, but they are definitely not. I'm #9 on the list for a 1370 with an original completion date of last year. They haven't started it yet. I'll cut them slack because of the pandemic, and post-pandemic complications. But they are no where near the production levels of the true "production" cats.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by 3cdad

I wish Seawind was a high production builder, but they are definitely not. I'm #9 on the list for a 1370 with an original completion date of last year. They haven't started it yet. I'll cut them slack because of the pandemic, and post-pandemic complications. But they are no where near the production levels of the true "production" cats.

Did SeaWind really not have build timelines in the contract you signed for breach if they aren’t able to deliver?

Something might be off with the 1370, the RUby Rose people announced their decision over 2 1/2 years ago, at the same time the Balance 442 was announced. The first 1370 is yet to splash where 4 of the Balance 442’s have crossed oceans now and the first one splashed a year ago. The boat does look like it will be an amazing cat, but Seawind dropped the ball, and can’t blame it on the global supply issue that the first one still isn’t in the water.

This isn’t the only model they produce though & once they do get the 1370 sorted out they’ll be spitting out 30 a year, & with 100 on the order books it’s a high volume product…inevitably somebody on that list of 100 will back out or have some unexpected health issues (or family circumstances change). Plus considering that SeaWind didn’t guarantee the price for any of these deliveries out beyond 24 months the price increases and crazy long lead time will cause fallout.

This will be true for every single manufacturer Balance, HH, Seawind, Lagoon…that’s just the way it works life happens when people make plans unfortunately.