Waves always look small on video...

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

to every non-biased average capacity thinking human, it is clear that in these sea conditions multi wins for comfort , safety etc against mono, even against super maxi mono.

OK here is a little mono 36 feet long and sailing at 21 knots, wait til you see what the bigger ones go like!! These guys are not working that hard although I don't see any wine glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw114yf9lkw

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

OK here is a little mono 36 feet long and sailing at 21 knots, wait til you see what the bigger ones go like!! These guys are not working that hard although I don't see any wine glasses.

Yep, that looks like a hellova lot of fun. But I've never seen one of those - or anything like it - in a cruising anchorage. And where is the dinghy and outboard? And why would any cruiser want to store the sails in the saloon?

This is not a good comparison to a long range cruising boat - multi or mono. Who doesn't think this boat goes back to a marina or a cradle after a day's sail?

2 Hulls Dave

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

OK here is a little mono 36 feet long and sailing at 21 knots, wait til you see what the bigger ones go like!! These guys are not working that hard although I don't see any wine glasses.

yeah fine. Coastal sailing fast monos are great. But do this for 65 days or so on open ocean and will starve as not enough room for food/water.

[beneteau-500]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

yeah fine. Coastal sailing fast monos are great. But do this for 65 days or so on open ocean and will starve as not enough room for food/water.

Arenelupiga , I doubt you have any clue about sailing at all just my view of point

[Palarran]

Robert, here's a 'little' multi doing 41 knots and they could be drinking wine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AReecUMi5x4

I mean, if were all going to start throwing the crap out there.....

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

yeah fine. Coastal sailing fast monos are great. But do this for 65 days or so on open ocean and will starve as not enough room for food/water.

Ok I just thought you were thinking monos were slow or something. look I really like Cats even though I have little actual experience sailing them but when you get a cruising Cat all loaded up for cruising their passage times are around the same time(give or take) as monos. You guys win the battles when the hook goes down, very stable and roomy but the downside is that you automatically become the party boat because you have such wonderful cockpits.

[Wrong]

Another advantage of sailing a crewed boat rather than solo. I'm usually too busy handling the boat under the worst conditions to even think about getting videos like the first one in this thread. And the closest thing I've ever seen to conditions in the video was on passage from Neah Bay, Wa. to San Fran in 2008. Gusts were probably around 40 knots with consistent crumbling across wave tops, wave heights estimated 12' - 14'. First time I was reluctant to heave to due to wave shape & height. And when I finally went below (under sail, vane steering) for some rest after conditions moderated somewhat, don't know how long after I laid down it happened, but I was awakened when she went 110 degrees from vertical... Early on in the first video is lots of spume, so 50+ knots is believable. Also, wind strength never looks as strong as it really is going dead downwind. Doesn't feel like it either.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

yeah fine. Coastal sailing fast monos are great. But do this for 65 days or so on open ocean and will starve as not enough room for food/water.

Coastal sailing? That boat is crossing from France to Madeira and is going to start crossing the Atlantic in some days. Why should they stay 65 days on an open ocean? There is no passage that will took so much time for that boat, at least in what regards cruising ones.

That boat is fast but a Pogo cruiser 10.50 or the new Pogo cruiser 36 are faster and some are used for long range cruising by their owners that certainly don't have Robert's cruising tastes. In fact even smaller boats, like the Pogo 8.50 are used to do long range cruising and to cross oceans. Sure, the dinghy has to be stored deflated but for what do you want a dinghy on a several days passage?

An anyway regarding monohulls a well designed light fast monohull offers already an adequate safety margin to cross oceans and it will cost a fraction of a cat able to do the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmLJAjLIHNA

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by Polux

...and it will cost a fraction of a cat able to do the same.

...and will be a fraction as comfortable.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Coastal sailing? That boat is crossing from France to Madeira and is going to start crossing the Atlantic in some days. Why should they stay 65 days on an open ocean? There is no passage that will took so much time for that boat, at least in what regards cruising ones.

That boat is fast but a Pogo cruiser 10.50 or the new Pogo cruiser 36 are faster and some are used for long range cruising by their owners that certainly don't have Robert's cruising tastes. In fact even smaller boats, like the Pogo 8.50 are used to do long range cruising and to cross oceans. Sure, the dinghy has to be stored deflated but for what do you want a dinghy on a several days passage?

An anyway regarding monohulls a well designed light fast monohull offers already an adequate safety margin to cross oceans and it will cost a fraction of a cat able to do the same.

I absolutely love fast boats and have done lots of racing over the years. If I was 10 years younger I'd be wanting to race on of these but cruising....meh! My wife wants to be happy and we need a real dingy as in RIB with a real engine as in Yami 15hp not the blow up pool toy with a 3 hp kicker everyone in the Med has. Then you need lots of solar and a way to lift that heavy dink, as in davits. Then you need to be able to carry fuel for that 15hp engine. Then you need 300 feet of chain and a decent windless and anchor. Where do you clean a fish on some of these boats? Where in the boat can you rig up a little workshop area for rebuilding crap that is always failing? I could go on and on but when you change a sport boat into a cruising boat its not always that easy. I love speed and I always sail as fast as I can without being hard on the boat. My first 2 offshore boats were modified racer/cruisers and while my passage times were good they were major compromises for the 90% of the time we were at anchor so now we own a boat that is not fast but its not terribly slow and it has many bases covered when the crossing is behind us but it could be much better than it is, life is full of compromises, oh well those mono hulls set up for offshore racing sure do fly but then you have to live with the downside when you drop the hook.

[Barra]

Well in all respect i reckon some of you guys are getting the wave state and the estimated winds a little mixed up IMHO. Had another look at the vid - no way that wind is 50 plus knots (but not disputing it was at some stage). The spume off the tops doesnt lie unlike the wave heights due to a lack of horizon reference.

Personally i reckon they are smiling because the worst is behind them. As we all know its a nervous feeling watching big weather and seastate build somewhere like the southern ocean as you never really know how far it will go but once you see it peak and your strategies work life is good and you can enjoy the ride!

On the cat vs mono question in this sea state I hesitate to go there but having been on a 50 foot mono in the southern ocean in sustained 40 knots and estimated 8 to 10 m seas surfing downwind it was not as comfortable as that little cat made it look. We needed a storm jib and heavily reefed main for steerage. 8 knots up the wave backs 20 to 24 knots down them. Helm was manned and needed steady attention as the auto could not handle the big spade rudder in those seas. Down below was so loud you could only sleep from sheer exhaustion.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

...and will be a fraction as comfortable.

Yes, I agree, it will be less comfortable then a much bigger cat that costs several times more but then with the price of the cat it is possible to buy a much bigger mono than the cat and then comfort in what regards seamotion will be on the side of the monohull. Fact is that both types have advantages and disadvantages.

[2Hulls]

That was a good appraisal, robert sailor.

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Where in the boat can you rig up a little workshop area for rebuilding crap that is always failing?

Yes, think that big fun, go fast Jeaneau 36 in the video has a vise installed someplace aboard? Any tools? Secondary anchors? A grill? Enough rum?

2 Hulls Dave

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Barra

Well in all respect i reckon some of you guys are getting the wave state and the estimated winds a little mixed up IMHO. Had another look at the vid - no way that wind is 50 plus knots (but not disputing it was at some stage). The spume off the tops doesnt lie unlike the wave heights due to a lack of horizon reference.

Personally i reckon they are smiling because the worst is behind them. As we all know its a nervous feeling watching big weather and seastate build somewhere like the southern ocean as you never really know how far it will go but once you see it peak and your strategies work life is good and you can enjoy the ride!

On the cat vs mono question in this sea state I hesitate to go there but having been on a 50 foot mono in the southern ocean in sustained 40 knots and estimated 8 to 10 m seas surfing downwind it was not as comfortable as that little cat made it look. We needed a storm jib and heavily reefed main for steerage. 8 knots up the wave backs 20 to 24 knots down them. Helm was manned and needed steady attention as the auto could not handle the big spade rudder in those seas. Down below was so loud you could only sleep from sheer exhaustion.

Spume? Spray? What's that stuff blowing horizontally to the waves? I've never seen that in 40 knots. I'm a poor judge of wave heights and may be Wrong, but nonetheless believe wind strength at the beginning of the vid is probably 50+- knots.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

That was a good appraisal, robert sailor.



Yes, think that big fun, go fast Jeaneau 36 in the video has a vise installed someplace aboard? Any tools? Secondary anchors? A grill? Enough rum?

2 Hulls Dave

Hey be easy on me, LOL I was just making the point monos are not as slow as many people think and Cats are not as fast but other than the rum I think you have me on this one!