We Are Considering Commissioning a John Shuttleworth Catamaran

[edgelea]

I own a Shuttleworth Tek-35 and love everything about it. The "flared sides" or knuckle give the interior more room than any 40'-45' cat I've been on without compromising performance at the waterline. I've never had any trouble rafting up or tieing to an bulkhead. You just have to have the appropriate fenders. Shuttleworths designs were ahead of their time and are still leading edge. Well thought out boats. Good Luck with your search for a builder.

[xxuxx]

I was wondering if you considered any of the Morelli and Melvin designs?? The have designed the "Gunboats" which are fast and stiff and great cruisers with all the amenities. Especially if the $vs Rand moves higher since they are made in South Africa. Their only problem? LOL they are wicked fast!!!!!!!!!!

[smm]

G'day First,

I had Endless Summer, 43' Farrier, custom built in Australia. Started in 2001, finished in 2003 sailed for 3 years and sold her for roughly what I put into her. In the world of custom boat building, that rates as a pretty good outcome. Here are some details:

A Biased Review of an F41

Originally Posted by First Mate

In our eternal search for the Holy Grail of a perfect boat, we have begun to lust after the Shuttleworth catamaran designs.

Ah, perfect. "Perfect" is the mortal enemy of "good."

If your notion of "perfect" has changed much in the last 5 years, a custom build is almost certainly a disaster waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by First Mate

We just might commission one if we thought we could find the right boat builder close enough to us so we could monitor the construction.

Be honest with yourself here: do you know enough about boat building to "monitor construction" in any meaningful way? Let us take it for granted that you're smart, and quick to learn a new field. I think that you'll find boat building stunningly hard to learn. It is a mix of science, engineering, tradition, craftsmanship religion and calculated risk. There is a huge mass of detail, very little of which has been written down. Are you paying a boat builder to build a boat that does what you want or to educate you about boat building?

Of the two boats built alongside mine, one was a complete disaster, one merely cost more than twice as much as planned, and then there was mine, which came in imperfect, 10% over budget, but still very good. The failure of the other two builds was almost entirely due to the active involvement of the owners.

Choosing a builder is like getting married for a couple of years (without the benefits of sex). Any sort of divorce will double the cost of your boat. Boat builders typically have very low net worth, so you have no real legal recourse. To the extent that my success was due to anything I actually did, it was due to me finding a builder who wanted to build the sort of boat I wanted to own and then staying out of his hair.

Originally Posted by First Mate

No matter what the builder says, how long does it actually take to build the boat - say 37 to 44 feet in length - and finish the interiors and mount the rigging?

I'd figure 10,000 hours of labor, $500,000 at US$50/hr, plus $150,000 for materials. So about $650,000 if everything runs according to plan. But $750,000 would be more realistic. Expect to pay more for the security of a "reputable" builder.

Originally Posted by First Mate

Any advice on finishing out the interiors and mounting rigging perhaps with a different builder than the hulls and bridge deck?

Don't.

Originally Posted by First Mate

Does anyone have any advice for using a boat builder in a country on the other side of the world - quality control verification, taxes, registration, real costs when all is said and done, etc.

If you ditch your unrealistic notions about "supervising construction" I don't see any problem with it. Hire a surveyor to run around with a camera every week or two and send you the pictures.

Import duties are currently 1.5%. While it will be a legal fiction, a "bill of sale" with a price in US$ is what US customs wants. I didn't have this and the result was several weeks of wrangling. I wound up paying import duties on more than I actually spent but it would have taken months to establish the "true" cost of the boat. You could, of course, use a foreign flag, but I doubt that you'd save much money.

Since materials are sourced internationally, the big difference is labor cost. The trade off here is that cheaper sanding rarely comes with the technical savvy necessary to assemble modern high-tech systems.

Note that many of the circumstances that had me building a boat in Australia in 2001 are no longer in force:

1. Exchange rate at 50-year low (I bought A$ at 52 cents)

2. Scarcity of used modern (ie. light, fast) catamarans.

3. Saturated US builders

If you have $750K to spend and you objective is cruising, starting a custom build now could be a big mistake. You can probably buy a good (not perfect) high performance catamaran and refit for $400,000. Finding a boat will be hard work, figure on 5 serious candidates at $20,000 each (travel to Mexico, NZ, OZ, survey etc.) but that still leaves you $250,000 in the bank - about 5 years of relatively luxurious cruising.

-Scott

[First Mate]

lemme see, I'm a professional engineer - a structural engineer to be exact. Spent most of my 30 year career inspecting construction sites dealing with men who treated me as tho I'm stupid because I'm female.

I still had to protect the public from unsafe construction, even tho every one was rude to me on the site and invalidated everything I said or did. My, the law was still on my side. I wrote em up and made em build it right.

yeah I think I can handle building a boat after inspecting 20 story buildings.

But you reminded me I don't want to.

[First Mate]

oh, and I add. I designed the 20 story buildings too.

I'm my own surveyor.

[procrew4u]

There is a Company on Stock Island next to Key West, FL. that makes cats and has made some pretty large ones at that, I have watched them build there new complex and produce some nice boats, of course Goetz up here in New England is another high quality builder who recently launched "Il Mostro" for Puma Racing steered by our local friend Ken Read and has proven to be a fast and better built boat than the other VO70's, this boat builder has built some Wally boats as well and that means high quality. At the moment they are in receivership but are open to new projects. We up here have some of the best builders and suppliers concentrated in one area, from spars (Hall) to sails (North, Quantum, Shore) to electronics installations and deck gear (Harken) and Southport Marine if you want Bio-Diesel setup, Your boat could be easily launched and sent down river picking up the parts as you head out once the hull hits the water, plus I couldn't think of a better place to be for awhile as your project developed.

I remember being on the Chesapeake and sailing along when a Shuttleworth 47 past me with a reef in the main and a Jib, Wow she was fast and I was on a F-27 tri (the same one that I was on when we won the 95 nationals in Pensacola, and which I designed the deck layout that appeared on the newer designs.. long story as to how that happened), I felt as if we were parked, with all that said, I wish you good luck in finding what you are looking for, And don't let anyone tell you "you can't do it". Seems to me your building still stands while people are patching their boats to keep them afloat.

[First Mate]

Dear SMM

sorry I flamed on you Buddy. A bit sensitive I am about being told to not inspect construction.

No doubt you are correct about all your advice, since you have actually commissioned, successfully, a fabulous boat.

Best to let professionals do their job without being harassed by the ignorant. I'm just not ready to let go of suspicion after 30 years of watching building construction. Once, I prevented an imminent collapse - the designer's fault, not the contractor's that time - never the same after that for me. At least it wasn't my fault or my design - and I caught the condition a few hours before the collapse would have occurred and killed at least 20 people. I almost missed catching the condition. Really made an impact on me for the rest of my life. I wasn't heroic, just did a rather mediocre job of being present and picking up on the obvious.

Really hard to step back for me. And it is a different field from building construction so I should - to some extent - step back from it if we commission a boat.

Unfortunately for all of us, a significant percentage of both boat builders and building contractors are going out of business right now. It's a loss that won't be completely corrected for a generation. Very serious. If you don't believe me, go to the Coast Guard web site and look at their list of manufacturers. Most of them are noted as "out of business" by the Coast Guard.

I wish I could afford to spend 3/4 Million $ right now to commission a boat because I would love to be able to support this fine industry like that. Can't. Don't have it.

Was hoping that commissioning a boat and handling some of the project management, purchasing separate parts, might make for a cheaper boat.

Still not sure it won't work, with the right combination. See the post in front of this one. Just needs more work on the part of the owner - I can project manage a collection of professionals and products - just can't do the work or the design, myself.

Do know that we have tried to purchase 30 year old monohull for $100K and needed to add $15K material costs alone immediately in replacement of worn out chain plates and tankage, not to mention head liners and heads. Old boats need the equivalent of $50K in updates right out the slip. Figured if we weren't going to buy a catamaran, would buy as cheap as possible in the monohull family. No free lunches there either.

I figure my knowledge and time is going to be worth $30 to $50K in any refit or commission project.

$750K is sadly very out of my league. Rediculous as it may sound, our budget is more like $200 to $250K for a catamaran either new or preowned.

Again, I apologize for flaming you. Your advice was well intentioned, and probably quite accurate.

First Mate.

[smm]

Originally Posted by First Mate

Dear SMM

sorry I flamed on you Buddy. A bit sensitive I am about being told to not inspect construction.

That was a flame? No worries. How would you have replied to me if I had posted to "Building Construction Forum" about how I wanted to supervise construction of my own 20-story building? The complexity of the tasks is quite similar and unlike boats, most buildings are actually used for common, well-understood purposes so really stupid ideas don't last very long. Not a tenth of one percent of boats will ever cruise anywhere.

Originally Posted by First Mate

No doubt you are correct about all your advice, since you have actually commissioned, successfully, a fabulous boat.

The exact mixture of good luck, skill, and technical correctness that produced my success is unknown. It is just an anecdote. You're giving me too much credit...

Originally Posted by First Mate

Do know that we have tried to purchase 30 year old monohull for $100K and needed to add $15K material costs alone

That's good condition :-)

Originally Posted by First Mate

I figure my knowledge and time is going to be worth $30 to $50K in any refit or commission project.

Absolutely. Add to that the fact that, you need to be able to repair everything yourself anyway.

Originally Posted by First Mate

$750K is sadly very out of my league. Rediculous as it may sound, our budget is more like $200 to $250K for a catamaran either new or preowned.

Well, lots of things are changing so your budget may not be as ridiculous as you think. People tend to give up cruising in downwind places because it is hard to get back. Ergo, I'd look for used boats in Panama, Mexico, Australia, New Caledonia, places like that. Visit those places regularly (might as well charter while you're there) cultivate local information sources, educate yourself about potential boat brands which are actually being cruised, and be ready to make a decision quickly. There's risk, but fortune favors the bold...

-Scott

[Cheechako]

When Bob Perry gets back he probably knows who could build it. Ought to be a good time to get one built.

[catman]

Firstmate, did you ever find a builder or a supplier for the Shuttleworth shell?
Catman

[First Mate]

Originally Posted by catman

Firstmate, did you ever find a builder or a supplier for the Shuttleworth shell?
Catman

we've been sitting on a fence all this time. haven't bought anything. yet. still looking.

if we could find a builder to give me a very fair reasonable price and I didn't have to wait terribly long, we still might commission one.

[imagine2frolic]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...log-30784.html

Take a look here, and get an ideaof what can be done.....i2f

[shipofools]

Also might want to check Eric Precourt in Canada. Builds larger Farriers, and knows his stuff.

He built a stunning example of a F39.

Cheers,

[Southern Star]

First Mate, your budget will probably be a little too tight for commissioning a new boat, especially one that is cruise-ready. That being said, there are some incredible deals out there right now and I have no doubt that even if you do not find your 'dream boat', you will be able to find a number of very sound, well-designed, well-built, well-equipped boats that can be brought back to bristol shape within your price range. Keep in mind that as the economy rebounds, prices are apt to rebound as well. Really, there may be no time better than the present.

Brad

[charliemagee]

Did you ever talk to Dale Schneider in Bokeelia, Florida. I believe he has built several Shuttleworth cats.