Wharram vs Mumby: the better and why

[Natureal1]

Howdy!

I'm new here and in the process of picking either a Mumby 48 or a Wharram Tiki 46 to build. Big caveat is if I can even FIND the Mumby plans. Two days of searching have yet to turn any up.

Curious to hear those with experience weigh in on which would be the better blue water AND coastal (shallows) sailing. My own reading gives me the impression that a Mumby with some of the Wharrams features might be the safest, fastest, most durable, stable option.

Thoughts and musings?

Thanks!
PS-- was trying to have this posted in the "Wharram" thread I had found.

[beta600]

Originally Posted by Natureal1

Howdy!

I'm new here and in the process of picking either a Mumby 48 or a Wharram Tiki 46 to build. Big caveat is if I can even FIND the Mumby plans. Two days of searching have yet to turn any up.

Curious to hear those with experience weigh in on which would be the better blue water AND coastal (shallows) sailing. My own reading gives me the impression that a Mumby with some of the Wharrams features might be the safest, fastest, most durable, stable option.

Thoughts and musings?

Thanks!
PS-- was trying to have this posted in the "Wharram" thread I had found.

by a semi project boat , cheaper , faster, and go to sail in a year,,,

[catsketcher]

Ah - no.
Wherever your head space is now, it is in the wrong place. You are not going to successfully meld bits of a Mumby with a Wharram. And stop with the reading and thinking someone with little experience can beat the design spiral that took Mumby or Wharram or any designer months to achieve.

If your project is going to be successful you will need 3 years where your family will see little of you, a stack of cash, a nice place to build and a few friends you can ask lots of. But get off the internet and get out sailing on a large cat before you start building. Look at Richard Woods, or Kurt Hughes websites and get down and find someone who owns one and get on board.

Be especially careful of watching too many cat building videos on Youtube. Some have some very strange (read incorrect) ideas on structure and what the addition of weight or windage will do. (I was watching one the other day and the guy cut into the main flange on the critical aft beam to put a huge hole in a vital strength component - the shear web - to put a liferaft in there . The incompetence is amazing and all his followers thought it was a great idea. How anyone could cut into the aft beam of a 40ft cat without getting the designer to redesign the structure is beyond me)

I love the idea of having more owner built cats out there, I have built 4 multis and the one that has given me the least worry is the one where I found a great designer, who sailed many tens of thousands of miles (even to Antarctica) talked to him lots and then followed his plans, without any significant variation. You are not smarter than an experienced cat designer so don't change the plans.

cheers

Phil

[beta600]

life is too short to build a multihull, so many on the market for a third of the price,,,

[Tupaia]

These two boats are poles apart at opposite ends of the spectrum. Both successful in their own way but really not comparable. Both competent blue water cruisers just very different concepts

Wharram - traditional Polynesian influenced design. Wood, simple, very safe, easily repaired. Accommodation is quite primitive and average performance, deep "V" hulls and easily handled "short" gaff style rig but not particularly good to windward no keels or daggerboards but very seaworthy. Relatively low cost and requiring only careful DIY skills to build.

Mumby - modern 4th generation wide beam, bridgedeck cat with fractional rig, welded aluminium construction. Round bilge hulls with daggerboards. Much more sophisticated "complicated" design. High stress rig, high power winches and expensive sail gear. Typical modern accommodation layout. Good performance on all points of the wind but more demanding to sail. Technically difficult to build, high grade aluminium welding and expensive fit out. Seaworthy but like any performance cat requires some degree of experience to sail safely.

Both boats are massive DIY projects that will take many years to complete.

Do you really need a cat this big? Might be worth considering something like a Richard Woods or Derek Kelsall design more middle ground, offering the best aspects of the two. Good performance with good accommodation and easier and "reasonably" economic to self build.

There is tremendous satisfaction to sailing on a boat you have built but it will take a big chunk out of your life and many who embark on the task fail. Good luck whatever you decide.

[Chotu]

you have received tremendously good advice so far.

It’s really important that you know what you want before you start building a boat. You don’t have it narrowed down well enough if you are choosing between a Mumby and a Wharram.

you should know exactly what boat you want. And then you should build that or something very very very similar to it.

So it’s time to step back a little bit and figure out what you want first.

The rest of the advice is spot on, except I think it might take even longer than people are suggesting it will to build a boat of this size. I would know. It’s also quite a sacrifice. You will lose a lot of friends. Potentially a spouse. And a lot of your life.

I will leave you with the advice Chris White gave me which I have repeated several times on the forum:

it cost the same amount of money and takes the same amount of time to build a crappy boat as it does a good one. You might as well build a good one.

This was the best advice I ever got. build your dream boat.

[Kettlewell]

My first question would be how much sailing experience do you have, and especially how much in cats around the size you are thinking of building? If you're going to commit to such a huge project you want to know it is the right project for what you want, and without the experience you will not be able to make the correct choices. Take any time estimates and double or triple them. Same with costs.

[longjonsilver]

i have no opinion on the designers or their boats, but i do know that building a boat is a huge endeavour especially for a first timer. Buy a fixer upper boat that you can sail and fix at the same time. You will be a lot happier
jon

[Chotu]

Until the end...

it is a miserable process all the way through until the end.

Once you have a boat that you could have never afforded or dreamed of owning, once you have made it through the gauntlet, it’s actually kind of nice.

I could not be happier with my boat. It’s my ideal boat. People talk about resale value sometimes when they build a boat. Why? Why would you ever sell the boat? if you pick the right one to build, you will only sell it once you are done boating. That’s why the OP really needs to focus and know what he wants before he builds it. There could be nothing worse than sacrificing all those years of your life for something you don’t really like

[Fore and Aft]

Natureal1 you could change the thread title to Lada or Porsche. That's how big a difference there is between those two designs.
Chotu the wife and I loved the whole boat building process. Probably because a 32 foot monohull is quick and easy to build and you could see progress every week. Not sure I would want to undertake building a big cat.
Cheers

[boatman61]

For speed and cost I'd go for the quick build 'stitch N glue' Tiki, you get a reasonably well performing cat with decent if simple accommodation and great sea keeping ability.
From what I see of the Mumby's.. its maybe 5 times the cost and to be honest longer to build.
A great boat for higher latitudes but honestly do you need all that for lower latitudes.
But it boils down to the lifestyle choices you want to make.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by boatman61

For speed and cost I'd go for the quick build 'stitch N glue' Tiki, you get a reasonably well performing cat with decent if simple accommodation and great sea keeping ability.
From what I see of the Mumby's.. its maybe 5 times the cost and to be honest longer to build.
A great boat for higher latitudes but honestly do you need all that for lower latitudes.
But it boils down to the lifestyle choices you want to make.

along these lines, I would also recommend looking into hard chine boats. There is a reason all of these new boats are coming out with hard chains. It’s because it’s cheaper to make them. That’s why they are in fashion. Cheaper to make means faster to build.

fairing is one of the worst parts of building a boat. I think it might actually be the worst part.

if you build a hard chine boat, you will be able to fair it much more easily

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

along these lines, I would also recommend looking into hard chine boats. There is a reason all of these new boats are coming out with hard chains. It’s because it’s cheaper to make them. That’s why they are in fashion. Cheaper to make means faster to build.

fairing is one of the worst parts of building a boat. I think it might actually be the worst part.

if you build a hard chine boat, you will be able to fair it much more easily

Kelsall probably has the quickest and simplest flat panel build technique with KISS but still benefits from rounded hull shapes.

[Sos]

Read all the above comments....and then read them all again

[Kettlewell]

I have met people that enjoy the boatbuilding more than the actual cruising. Long ago my wife and I decided that we weren't that sort. Instead of spending five years of our lives building a boat we spent five additional years of sailing. OTOH, I know of one person who spent something like 10 years building his dream boat, and it was a beauty. But, the last time I saw him he still hadn't really used the boat much but instead was intent on designing and building the next modification. Obviously, there are people in-between these poles, but go into such a big project with your eyes wide open knowing that it will take years, much money and time, and chances are good you will end up with something that is not as good as you could have bought used unless you are already skilled and experienced at building boats. I have seen a lot of homebuilt boats and most are just not as good as commercially built boats. There are always exceptions, and you might be one of those people!