What boatspeed should I expect, as a percentage of True wind?

[GRIT]

Thanks for your comments Fxykty.

We reef the mainsail the same way you do, and seldom have to change course.

The Code zero is too long to tack to the bows. There wouldn't be any luff tension. I just measured the sail, and it would be 25cm too long to attach to the bow. My bows are solid foam for about 50cm from the stem. Even so, the sail would be slightly too long to attach to the stem, as it is now.

It so happens that my sailmaker cut the code 0 too long to sit properly on the bowsprit (about 15cm). He's going to remedy that this fall, so I'll get him to shorten it by 30cm instead of 15cm; then I can use it on the bows.

If that works to 170, then I might forego the spinnaker and get a schreecher, or similar, instead

So far we've rolled it up to tack or Gybe, and unrolled on the new tack. There's room between the roller furler and the Code zero, at 2m, but I usually feel it's just easier to roll it in, then back out again on the other tack.


We just arrived in PEI, and the winds weren't what we'd expected, so I didn't get a chance to try wing on wing with the code zero, or jib; as I said I'd do on my last post.

Cheers.
Paul.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by GRIT

The Code zero is too long to tack to the bows. There wouldn't be any luff tension. I just measured the sail, and it would be 25cm too long to attach to the bow.

If I understand correctly your geometry is a bit different to the Outremer isn't it?

Your forward beam is closer to the bows, and then your bowsprit extends further forward again?

I think @fxykty's forward beam is further aft, and the bowsprit is more in line with the bows.

Anyway, it seems like the possibility to shorten it at the sailmaker will be a good option to extend the sail's capabilities.

[GRIT]

Thanks Jmh2002.

I had no idea the Outremer's sprit was more or less lined up with the bows.

You're right, our sprit extends beyond the bows; fortunately the geometry is such that a slight change in the length of the sail will allow us to use it in the same way that fxykty does.

I'll try it out that way, and see if it can act as a reasonable substitute for an Asym. It'll be a fair bit smaller than the Asym, but it's worth a try; and will allow me to trim my sail inventory, if it works well.

Cheers.
Paul.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by GRIT

I had no idea the Outremer's sprit was more or less lined up with the bows.

For reference, O55L (although I'm not sure if @fxykty's boat has been further modified since that photo).

But look at those long slim hulls!

[GRIT]

Agreed, the boat's awesome!

Paul.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

For reference, O55L (although I'm not sure if @fxykty's boat has been further modified since that photo).



But look at those long slim hulls!

Here’s a newer photo with our new single bow pole - slightly longer, visible at the bottom of the photo. Zoom in at your peril.




When you said shorter I was thinking foot and not luff. Silly me. But do note that a soft luff is OK for deep reaching and downwind and will help project the luff to windward.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by fxykty

We used to always come up to a close reach to reef our main, but we’ve developed a technique to reef at any wider angle. It’s slower and the main does drag on the rig, but it works. The trick is to keep the boom at the centreline and work a few feet at a time, keeping enough leech tension throughout to avoid having the sail twist off excessively.

Does anyone have a better method?

There is a another method that limits drag on the rig. It only works with slab reefing and does not work with single line reefing.

We use this on all points of sail in all wind strengths without reducing speed or changing course and without stressing the autopilot that can remain on. The jib can be kept flying.

1. Centre the traveller leaving the boom set at its current position by adjusting the mainsheet.

2. Ease the mainsheet until the boom is feathered (upwind) or the boom is against the shrouds (downwind).

3. With the mainsheet slack, haul in on the leach reef line. This will lift the boom and and at the same time de-power (scandalise) the main. This is especially helpful on a reach or broad reach where you don't want to power up or induce weather helm. The wind strength will determine how much can be pulled in.

4. Ease the halyard and at the same time haul in the mainsheet. The boom is now acting as a lever, the sail will be pulled back from the shrouds and the sail should drop until the boom is level. If you have luff reef lines these can be pulled in to assist but it is essentially the leverage of the boom that is pulling the sail down.

5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 until the reef is set. My reefs are roughly 2-2.5m apart and it usually takes 2 or 3 goes, if it is really tough conditions it could be as many as 5 goes.

6. Adjust mainsheet and traveller.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

There is a another method that limits drag on the rig. It only works with slab reefing and does not work with single line reefing.

We use this on all points of sail in all wind strengths without reducing speed or changing course and without stressing the autopilot that can remain on. The jib can be kept flying.

1. Centre the traveller leaving the boom set at its current position by adjusting the mainsheet.

2. Ease the mainsheet until the boom is feathered (upwind) or the boom is against the shrouds (downwind).

3. With the mainsheet slack, haul in on the leach reef line. This will lift the boom and and at the same time de-power (scandalise) the main. This is especially helpful on a reach or broad reach where you don't want to power up or induce weather helm. The wind strength will determine how much can be pulled in.

4. Ease the halyard and at the same time haul in the mainsheet. The boom is now acting as a lever, the sail will be pulled back from the shrouds and the sail should drop until the boom is level. If you have luff reef lines these can be pulled in to assist but it is essentially the leverage of the boom that is pulling the sail down.

5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 until the reef is set. My reefs are roughly 2-2.5m apart and it usually takes 2 or 3 goes, if it is really tough conditions it could be as many as 5 goes.

6. Adjust mainsheet and traveller.

Hmmm, interesting. I don’t think it’s necessary when the wind is forward enough to feather the main and still keep it off the shrouds. But for deeper angles I like the idea of using the boom to pull the main off the shroud and spreaders and down.

However, I would be worried about over bending the battens around the shroud and breaking them during steps 2 and 3. Will try it in lighter winds first.

Thanks.

[jmh2002]

^^^ Interesting

And loading up the leech by pulling in the mainsheet like this doesn't cause the headboard and/or luff slides/cars/track to bind and not allow the sail to come down freely?

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by fxykty

When you said shorter I was thinking foot and not luff. Silly me. But do note that a soft luff is OK for deep reaching and downwind and will help project the luff to windward.

That's true, but I'd rather be able to roll it back up, if the wind picks up; that would be complicated.

I'll have it shortened, and try it then.

Out of curiosity, why did you change from the V sprit to a single sprit? I always thought the V type were clever.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

^^^ Interesting

And loading up the leech by pulling in the mainsheet like this doesn't cause the headboard and/or luff slides/cars/track to bind and not allow the sail to come down freely?

If anything it is easier because the sail is longer dragging down the rig.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by GRIT

That's true, but I'd rather be able to roll it back up, if the wind picks up; that would be complicated.



I'll have it shortened, and try it then.



Out of curiosity, why did you change from the V sprit to a single sprit? I always thought the V type were clever.



Cheers.

Paul.

The v-sprit was much heavier and bulkier. It has a lot more drag to water.

It was a fun place to sit.

It supports side loads better.

We wanted a bit more length and the ability to pivot the pole up and completely out of the way.

As the sprit is unsupported it needs a halyard - the heavier sprit makes it more critical. The lighter bow pole is self supporting.

We use a vb cord to the seagull striker as a backup - the previous owner left a 10mm double braid cord between the two. On our first passage, having left that line in place and getting caught without halyard on it we lost our seagull striker on catching a big wave with the v-sprit. After that episode, we thought about the options.

Outremer still puts the v-sprit on their boats, so they obviously think they’re a good idea. But we considered it a weak spot.

[GRIT]

Fxykty: Thanks for your explanation.

I hadn't thought about submerging the sprit. I guess that's the downside of having a fast boat.

We did, once, punch through a wave at the mouth of the Delaware river, with a wind against tide situation. Though we were pushing 9 knots, into some pretty darn steep 2m seas. We put the bow beam right through the top 60cm or so of the wave. Slowing the boat to 6 knots allowed us to avoid a repeat performance. Interestingly enough, that wave didn't make it to the front cockpit, it disappeared through the tramp. I was happy we chose the 2" mesh, or that tramp would have been history.

It's always a pleasure to read your take on things.

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

Here's a quick video. The current in our favour, but it was a bit bouncy due to the interplay between the wind and the current. I suppose that may have slowed us down a bit, going trough the waves...

One reef in the Main, and a full jib.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y28L13cncs

Cheers.
Paul.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Just thought I throw this up here, since there are probably people in this thread that may appreciate it (and because I think it's pretty cool ):

Antal Soft Loop Hook - Light, Simple Line Control
https://www.sail-world.com/news/238172/?source=rss

"The Antal Soft Loop Hook is essentially a modern, lightweight snatch block..."

Further to an earlier post of mine with useful new gear for performance cats, I came across another Antal product that looked nice too:

Antal Barber Block - Impeccable Design
https://www.sail-world.com/news/242558/?source=rss

"The Antal Barber Block combines a ball bearing snatch block with a 'low friction ring head..."

Barber Block