What is the best Catamaran to cruise and retire on?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by billknny

Wait! Wait! I thought all catamarans are unsinkable? That's what the salesman keep saying!

Hahahahaha, How many Mono's wont sink minus a Keel,

[panglaodave]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

I imagine the 4 stroke outboards would be a good deal quieter?

Honda states 4 strokes 50% quieter also 50% more fuel efficient and 90% cleaner

Delivered a friends Condor 40 Chesapeake - Bermuda - twin Honda outboards, 35s if I remember correctly - I think he over powered it IMHO

QUIETEST outboards ever - I had to see the water outlet stream to make sure that the engines were running

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by billknny

Wait! Wait! I thought all catamarans are unsinkable? That's what the salesman keep saying!

not all cats are made equal.

[CatNewBee]

Positive buoyancy does not mean, they cannot be destroyed, but it definitely can help on high seas accidents / capsizing to survive a little longer until help arrives. FP claims an USP on this for their catamarans by installing sealed foam structures in all 4 corners. Other manufacturers just use watertight sections / bulkheads to achieve similar results. I like the Idea of having positive buoyancy, but it takes a lot of storage space too.

One day there will be inflateable airbags for cats for distress situation I guess, use less space but can save the vessel if necessary...

[Anders]

It's a CE requirement at least for category A that a cat will float inverted with maximum load. Can't remember it saying anything when it's upright...

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Positive buoyancy does not mean, they cannot be destroyed, but it definitely can help on high seas accidents / capsizing to survive a little longer until help arrives. FP claims an USP on this for their catamarans by installing sealed foam structures in all 4 corners. Other manufacturers just use watertight sections / bulkheads to achieve similar results. I like the Idea of having positive buoyancy, but it takes a lot of storage space too.

One day there will be inflateable airbags for cats for distress situation I guess, use less space but can save the vessel if necessary...

There is already, Inflatable air bags that fold flat and you can blow them up when needed,
One cubic metre of air per ton,
Store them flat under your bed,

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I was only referring to your advice that being retired means sailing slowly and the implication that you apply that advice to yourself.

What does a motorcycle have to do with choosing a boat?

The type/make of bike often gives a clue to the personality.. and personality goes a long way in the choosing of a boat.. as does the lack of or distaste for bikes..
Go figure..

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by panglaodave

Honda states 4 strokes 50% quieter also 50% more fuel efficient and 90% cleaner

Delivered a friends Condor 40 Chesapeake - Bermuda - twin Honda outboards, 35s if I remember correctly - I think he over powered it IMHO

QUIETEST outboards ever - I had to see the water outlet stream to make sure that the engines were running

I had the same problem with a Honda 15 4 stroke. I would have to look for the exhaust water tell tale to know it was running, literally.

[schoonerdog]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

I'd love a cat with outboards, seems the obvious choice these days. Did you ever get on a PDQ 32 or 36 with inboards diesels to be able to hear the noise and vibration difference vs your o/bs?
I imagine the 4 stroke outboards would be a good deal quieter?

Yes, very quiet. Frankly you could probably boost up the power of the 36 with new Yamaha 25 HP engines, they are very quiet (you can talk quietly to someone on a boat nearby while the engine is idling) and you get an electric fuel injection on an outboard that is only 123 lbs. Best weight to power ratio of any of their small outboards, they are only a few lbs heavier than the 15s.

Though the 15 HP engines they use are high thrust outboards.

And yes, I would take an outboard powered cat over any alternative as you can work on them, and even replace them, so very easily.

If you wrap a prop you can lift the whole thing out of the water and fix it.

No electrolysis ever, no outdrive or sailshaft to worry about, no prop being fouled and needing to be cleaned, no worries about zincs prematurely being eaten away and taking your $3000 prop with it, no stray currents going into the water, no part that is in accessible, no need to be tied to a particular marina because they have the diesel mechanic that is certified for your engines, no need to worry about where to find a mechanic if something is difficult to repair because every inhabited island in the world has an outboard mechanic, you will probably be more easily able to switch to electric engines via an electric outboard than any other boat if you wanted to give it a try. Finally, if the worst happens and you loose the engine, you aren't stuck somewhere for 3 months waiting for them to replace your engine for $22,000- you simply put your broken outboard in your dinghy and go get another one.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Yes, very quiet. Frankly you could probably boost up the power of the 36 with new Yamaha 25 HP engines, they are very quiet (you can talk quietly to someone on a boat nearby while the engine is idling) and you get an electric fuel injection on an outboard that is only 123 lbs. Best weight to power ratio of any of their small outboards, they are only a few lbs heavier than the 15s.

Though the 15 HP engines they use are high thrust outboards.

And yes, I would take an outboard powered cat over any alternative as you can work on them, and even replace them, so very easily.

If you wrap a prop you can lift the whole thing out of the water and fix it.

No electrolysis ever, no outdrive or sailshaft to worry about, no prop being fouled and needing to be cleaned, no worries about zincs prematurely being eaten away and taking your $3000 prop with it, no stray currents going into the water, no part that is in accessible, no need to be tied to a particular marina because they have the diesel mechanic that is certified for your engines, no need to worry about where to find a mechanic if something is difficult to repair because every inhabited island in the world has an outboard mechanic, you will probably be more easily able to switch to electric engines via an electric outboard than any other boat if you wanted to give it a try. Finally, if the worst happens and you loose the engine, you aren't stuck somewhere for 3 months waiting for them to replace your engine for $22,000- you simply put your broken outboard in your dinghy and go get another one.

Well stated.

[sailorcherry]

Originally Posted by panglaodave

Honda states 4 strokes 50% quieter
QUIETEST outboards ever - I had to see the water outlet stream to make sure that the engines were running

Now that's quiet! The Hondas do seem to be #1 for quietness, or at least that's my observation.

[sailorcherry]

Well I think you just nailed every reason out there to go outboard! To me o/b powered sailing boats have evolved much like solar has in the past decade....and obviously together they make for a lighter, quieter sailboat. Don't we all want that?!

Now, you keep mentioning Yamaha, why so?
Couldn't you have powered the 36 with twin Honda 15s?
Or is it because those Yamaha's have that giant prop and hence faster? I haven't understood (well I actually never really looked into it so idk) why Honda doesn't power their HT o/bs with the bigger prop like the Yamaha. But I'm no mechanic, just trying to learn enough to understand, so maybe there is some obvious reason?

My friend is cat shopping in the 32-36 range. I suggested the PDQs for build quality and less windage than say a Lagoon and decent bridgedeck clearance (the 32 for that because he is a bit of a hoarder, lol). He said he thought the PDQ's seemed underpowered with just twin 9.9s on both the 32 and 36. Said he would repower with 15s on either model. I mean, why not? Or is it not done because their physical size won't fit in those wells?

He is getting to sail an outboard cat right now in the tropics. Problem is the owner has it mounted, one o/b no stilette drive (whatever you call it?) either and it is on the stern cross beam....too far aft so cavitation issues? So it's turning him off of o/b cats.

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Yes, very quiet. Frankly you could probably boost up the power of the 36 with new Yamaha 25 HP engines, they are very quiet (you can talk quietly to someone on a boat nearby while the engine is idling) and you get an electric fuel injection on an outboard that is only 123 lbs. Best weight to power ratio of any of their small outboards, they are only a few lbs heavier than the 15s.

Though the 15 HP engines they use are high thrust outboards.

And yes, I would take an outboard powered cat over any alternative as you can work on them, and even replace them, so very easily.

If you wrap a prop you can lift the whole thing out of the water and fix it.

No electrolysis ever, no outdrive or sailshaft to worry about, no prop being fouled and needing to be cleaned, no worries about zincs prematurely being eaten away and taking your $3000 prop with it, no stray currents going into the water, no part that is in accessible, no need to be tied to a particular marina because they have the diesel mechanic that is certified for your engines, no need to worry about where to find a mechanic if something is difficult to repair because every inhabited island in the world has an outboard mechanic, you will probably be more easily able to switch to electric engines via an electric outboard than any other boat if you wanted to give it a try. Finally, if the worst happens and you loose the engine, you aren't stuck somewhere for 3 months waiting for them to replace your engine for $22,000- you simply put your broken outboard in your dinghy and go get another one.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Yes, very quiet. Frankly you could probably boost up the power of the 36 with new Yamaha 25 HP engines, they are very quiet (you can talk quietly to someone on a boat nearby while the engine is idling) and you get an electric fuel injection on an outboard that is only 123 lbs. Best weight to power ratio of any of their small outboards, they are only a few lbs heavier than the 15s.

The new Yamaha 25s look really good. Unfortunately they haven't done a high thrust version yet, so if you want the big gearbox and prop, you're still stuck with the old, heavy, carburetor 25.

Maybe solas or someone will do a high thrust prop for them?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Well I think you just nailed every reason out there to go outboard! To me o/b powered sailing boats have evolved much like solar has in the past decade....and obviously together they make for a lighter, quieter sailboat. Don't we all want that?!

Now, you keep mentioning Yamaha, why so?
Couldn't you have powered the 36 with twin Honda 15s?
Or is it because those Yamaha's have that giant prop and hence faster? I haven't understood (well I actually never really looked into it so idk) why Honda doesn't power their HT o/bs with the bigger prop like the Yamaha. But I'm no mechanic, just trying to learn enough to understand, so maybe there is some obvious reason?

My friend is cat shopping in the 32-36 range. I suggested the PDQs for build quality and less windage than say a Lagoon and decent bridgedeck clearance (the 32 for that because he is a bit of a hoarder, lol). He said he thought the PDQ's seemed underpowered with just twin 9.9s on both the 32 and 36. Said he would repower with 15s on either model. I mean, why not? Or is it not done because their physical size won't fit in those wells?

He is getting to sail an outboard cat right now in the tropics. Problem is the owner has it mounted, one o/b no stilette drive (whatever you call it?) either and it is on the stern cross beam....too far aft so cavitation issues? So it's turning him off of o/b cats.

Installation is definitely important with outboards. If you simply hang them on the transoms or rear beam, they'll only work in flat water.

The reason Yamaha is a popular choice is because they have genuine high thrust versions of some of their engines. These are equipped with bigger, deeper reduction gearboxes, and much larger, lower pitch props.

Honda has a "powerthrust" version of the 15 and 20. But really, it's just a slightly larger diameter, lower pitch prop.

One advantage Honda does offer over the Yamaha is an extra long 28" shaft. Weirdly, it's only available on the 15 in the US, and the 20 in Australia.

[schoonerdog]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Well I think you just nailed every reason out there to go outboard! To me o/b powered sailing boats have evolved much like solar has in the past decade....and obviously together they make for a lighter, quieter sailboat. Don't we all want that?!

Now, you keep mentioning Yamaha, why so?
Couldn't you have powered the 36 with twin Honda 15s?
Or is it because those Yamaha's have that giant prop and hence faster? I haven't understood (well I actually never really looked into it so idk) why Honda doesn't power their HT o/bs with the bigger prop like the Yamaha. But I'm no mechanic, just trying to learn enough to understand, so maybe there is some obvious reason?

My friend is cat shopping in the 32-36 range. I suggested the PDQs for build quality and less windage than say a Lagoon and decent bridgedeck clearance (the 32 for that because he is a bit of a hoarder, lol). He said he thought the PDQ's seemed underpowered with just twin 9.9s on both the 32 and 36. Said he would repower with 15s on either model. I mean, why not? Or is it not done because their physical size won't fit in those wells?

He is getting to sail an outboard cat right now in the tropics. Problem is the owner has it mounted, one o/b no stilette drive (whatever you call it?) either and it is on the stern cross beam....too far aft so cavitation issues? So it's turning him off of o/b cats.

The 36 has OB in the engine wells inside the cockpits, so it's well forward, where it should be. I've owned Tohatsu, Nissan, Honda and Yamaha. They are all good, though I think that only Yamaha has an EFI on a manual start 25 HP engine, and they are lighter than the rest for a 25HP. It's quiet an engineering accomplishment. As to being under powered, the PDQ36 is 8000 lbs, with and 11 to 1 or so hull beam ratio for the hull itself, so they have very narrow hulls and go through the water very well. I've been in 72 knots of wind with the PDQ, head on, and while I wasn't making headway, I wasn't being pushed back either. With both of them going I could probably do around 8 knots, so I wouldn't call them underpowered. And you do want the low RPM high thrust model. Yamahas are everywhere once you leave the US. I couldn't find spark plugs for my Honda 8, but anything Yamaha was to be found in every small port. Just look at any video showing Somali pirates in a skiff being blown up and you'll see they are driving a Yamaha! But again, I think they are all good engines. The only bad engine I had was and Evinrude, their poor attempt at a 4 stroke in the 90s that made them go bankrupt. That was a truly horrible engine.