What is the most affordable new cruising cat??

[aqfishing]

I would say buy a used boat and go cruising sooner with more money in your pocket!

Another option is to buy into a charter company on one of their downpayment schemes. Then you get in cheap, have usage of your boat for 5 or 6 years. You can keep an eye on the maintenance, then when you take over you at least have a used boat that you know and trust!

[Simon.Sails]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyOne

I think it made sense to buy used up until around 2010 ish, I think post credit crisis something shifted and the depreciation curve on boats and specifically cats shifted. If you look a list prices of the lagoon 400 from 2010-2015 period where you would perhaps get to 300k or less kitted out and probably typical price with discount around 250k and that is not too far above where they sell today. I know its smaller but for 300 - 350 you can get new L40 or FP40 so I don't think such a shallow depreciation makes sense. My gut says a lot people will be stung with cost of replacing standing rigging, engine overhaul etc have failed to depreciate versus new.

You are hard pressed to find a a good FP mahe evo half the price of a new Lucia so it does not add up to me, sure used will be cheaper outright dollar amount but value wise seems much worse in my my very humble opinion.

Thanks for summarizing so well what I felt looking at used cat prices. Prices seem inflated relative to new, more stylish cats with warranty.

That's exactly why I'm looking at the Aventura 37 - it's pretty much exactly the kind of boat, size, options I want. The base price is EUR 225'000.-, another 50k or so for solar, batteries, air-con, water-maker and the such and you have a very nice boat to cruise in. No owner reviews to be found anywhere even on the older Aventura 34, so I'll just have to do my due dilligence in April when they show it at the boat show in La Motte, France.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by wants_a_cat

Day dreaming land animal in late 20s with little money and big dreams.


I would like to give up the rat race one day and sail with my wife, but I am not a high earner. I also don't want a monohull/



I am wondering what the cheapest ocean-going NEW cat one can buy/have built and kitted out for sailing around the world. I am looking for the bare bones needed to make, for instance, a transatlantic passage from Portugal to the Caribbean, and to live on board for some time without dying. It has to have a head with shower, a galley, a fridge for food, and berths suitable for at least 4 tall people, and headroom of at least 1.90 meters or thereabouts.



From the production cats, from what I can see, the Seawind 1160 Lite has a base price of $310000 USD, which is the cheapest from the production cats for which I can find the price.


I would be willing to consider having a boat made from a kit, like a Schionning Arrow 1200 for instance, but I don't have space or time to build one myself, so this would need an estimate of labour costs as well.


As for performance: it has to sail, preferably fast (speed is safety). Engines: I don't care, has to be cheap. Could be outboards, as long as it cuts down on the costs.


Do any of you have any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Checkout used Gemini's. Gemini's have been sailed around the world but probably better suited for coastal cruising and an occasional crossing in open sea of no more than a couple of days.

[dvop]

buy a used one. during the first 5 years the boat may loose 30% to 50% of its value.
Any repairs or upgrades you may need will not come close to this lose of value not to mention that if you think that a new boat is free of issues you have one big mistake.

[Ndavies]

We went with a new Lagoon 40 and absolutely love it. The biggest saving we made was self-delivering the boat from France back to the USA. There are many potential ways to save taking this approach (happy to share details via PM)- plus you get the trip of a lifetime! More info - see link below:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...v6wtwW97KFcsYn
https://midnightsunii.blogspot.com/

[Simon.Sails]

Originally Posted by dvop

buy a used one. during the first 5 years the boat may loose 30% to 50% of its value.
Any repairs or upgrades you may need will not come close to this lose of value not to mention that if you think that a new boat is free of issues you have one big mistake.

Can you show me any 5 year old Nautitechs 50% off please? Or FP, Lagoon, Bali... whatever. I wish that was the case, but people seem to sell 10 year old cats at marginal discounts.

[Ndavies]

Simon
You are on track. Cats are in demand and prices are high on used. I researched 2-4 year old cats, and bought new for similar to a 2 year old. Now, I saved on the delivery and some other big ticket items with the way I did it. And everything was new, with warranty. Its definitely worth researching, and give more credibility to those that have done it than those who search yachtworld from armchairs!

[Simon.Sails]

Originally Posted by Ndavies

Simon
You are on track. Cats are in demand and prices are high on used. I researched 2-4 year old cats, and bought new for similar to a 2 year old. Now, I saved on the delivery and some other big ticket items with the way I did it. And everything was new, with warranty. Its definitely worth researching, and give more credibility to those that have done it than those who search yachtworld from armchairs!

Thanks, I'm also lucky that the delivery to many ports in the Med seems included for European-made cats, so I don't have to do an Atlantic crossing right away like you. And I'm thinking of keeping it in Italy (around Genova or Venice) the first few seasons. Fingers crossed I find my dream boat and sign the contract next year, probably delivered in 2022. Otherwise I'd rather charter a few times or join other cruisers until I can afford the boat I really like instead of a poor compromise that costs nearly as much.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Simon.Sails

Can you show me any 5 year old Nautitechs 50% off please? Or FP, Lagoon, Bali... whatever. I wish that was the case, but people seem to sell 10 year old cats at marginal discounts.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/202...n-450-3704367/
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n-450-3707800/


2020 vs 2014 is 6 years

330/700 = 0.47 is 53% off



Selling any mass production, 10 years old, boat (or car) at a marginal discount is an urban legend.

Your definition of 'marginal' may vary though.


barnakiel

[Simon.Sails]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/202...n-450-3704367/
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n-450-3707800/

2020 vs 2014 is 6 yeras

330/700 = 0.47 is 53% off

Selling any mass production, 10 years old, boat (or car) at a marginal discount is an urban legend.

Your definition of 'marginal' may vary though.

barnakiel

Thanks, that's actually a decent offer. But the majority of sub 45ft cats on yachtworld unfortunately don't come with that steep a discount, so not quite an urban legend. I've mostly seen 25-35% discounts for 5 year old cats, which in my view isn't worth it.

[barnakiel]

Yes.


In broadest terms, the discount as % is related to quality.


Catanas, Outremers, HR, Oysters (etc. generic names) tend to loose less, FP, Lagoon, Bavarias (again -like, not specific brands) tend to loose more.


Think of s/h Mercedes vs. Fiat.


Also : most value is lost over first 2-3 years (loosing manufacturer warranty, etc.) then it is less fast, buts still notable into 5-6 years of age (think of charter companies dumps). Beyond about 6 years and towards 10 years the drop is less pronounced and the prices seem to reflect boat condition resulting from owner's care, rather than anything else.


At places, some truly OLD boats stopped loosing value and may actually be more expensive than in the past (in inflation-uncorrected terms) - e.g. older HR boats are now more expensive to buy in Sweden than not too long ago - the reason is very simple: people still want these, but their supply is dwindling every year. As financed Bavarias got out of reach many smart Swedes decided an old HR is good enough. And this drove prices UP.



b.

[Piscis]

There are a couple of 5-6 year old Nautitech open 40s, Leopard 39s, Lagoon 39 and 400s on YW with an asking price of around 50-60% of new list price. Consider an average 10% discount on that.

Sunsail/Mooring is calculating a value of approx. 50-60% after 5 years in their fleet. So that number does not seems to be too far from the truth.

Just because a seller or brooker sets a YW add of a 10 year old cat with an asking price close to new sticker means that boat its worth it...

[alitaptap]

Seawind - based on quality from first-hand reports I have received about factory in Vietnam compared to European alternatives

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/202...n-450-3704367/
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n-450-3707800/


2020 vs 2014 is 6 years

330/700 = 0.47 is 53% off



Selling any mass production, 10 years old, boat (or car) at a marginal discount is an urban legend.

Your definition of 'marginal' may vary though.


barnakiel

Typically people are talking about the depreciation from new. In 2015 (I couldn't find 2014), that Lagoon 450 was around $525,000 list... so it's currently around a 37% depreciation from new. And that's an ex-charter boat which is the lowest priced 450 on the market. The non-charter boats are starting at $400k from what I could see.

If the math holds true, the new 2020 $700k boat will be $441,000... and that's a low/below market charter boat.

http://www.kiriacoulis.com/sales/Lag...management.pdf


Matt

[Piscis]

Matt, the 525k from 2015 is a base list price, no options added, no delivery, no extras, NOT even delivered from building site to harbour. The asking prices on YW reflects a turnkey ready boat with a lot of options, sitting in a marina, ready for take off. 100k has to be added easily.

E.g a brand new L40 lists, baseprice, around 290.000k Euro. Most boats are optioned for around 80-100k Euro. Just look at the price list of the manufacterer...

Adding those numbers we come back to approx. 50% for a 5 year old cat... Ready to go.

John