What is the price point to generally avoid a "project boat" catamaran?

[SV_FlyingTigress]

One datapoint for you I purchased a 92' Privilege 39 in Rio Dulce a year ago. Refit included (or will include when done) new running/standing rigging, all new B&G electronics and autopilot, new solar at 2KW, new viltron electrical system converted to 110/60hz and lithium at 1100AH, new canvas, sails were already in near-new condition. It had new in 2014 engines/saildrives (had the sail drives rebuilt and re-sealed) with 800hrs. New water maker. New bottom paint. New heads, new anchor/chain. Rebuilt the lofrans tigress windlass...all this is 2022/2023 work/prices. We will probably have about 250-260K US in it when it is complete including purchase price. That was largely work I had done with occasional trips down to review/supervise while I was working in the US, so it can be done for the budget you quoted, particularly if you do it yourself (which I did about 30%). I think the P39's are one of the best platforms you could possibly get in a "budget" cat due to the construction/sailability (if not overloaded). That is one avenue you could try.

[smj]

Here’s a good example of a very well built 38’ catamaran that has simple systems in excellent sailaway condition for slightly over $100k.

https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/95023
We owned this catamaran for 6 years before selling it to the current owner. We never advertised the boat for sale as the current owner bought a 43’ cat from us 17 years ago and was interested in purchasing one of the two catamarans we owned at the time. It’s anchored about 300’ away from us now and is absolutely stunning.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by P.Marlowe

I'm nearing retirement, and I'm set with a pension for ongoing expenses, but I'm eyeballing my cruising kitty and wondering if I have enough for my start-up costs.



I'd like to purchase a used 38'+ catamaran, something bigger than Gemini or Prout 37. I want to fix any significant issues, kit it out for full-time live-aboard, and sail the Caribbean for a few seasons. It doesn't need to be new or sexy, just comfortable and seaworthy. I know all boats need upkeep and work, but I'd like something I can spend more time cruising than time tied to a dock repairing critical systems.



What minimum amount would I need to get started without taking out a loan or taking on a project boat?



I realize this may be a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" type question, so I'm certainly not looking for a high degree of accuracy. Still, I hope to tap the Cruisers Forum hive mind for a consensus and understanding of today's boat market.



I also know monohulls are less expensive and I can always scale down to match my funds, but I'm trying to look at the equation from the other direction.



Thanks in advance for your consideration and for sharing your experience.

How long is a piece of string?
Impossible to say unless one actually knows what exactly needs to be replaced or repaired.

[chubby]

my interpretation of the OP's question was that is was more about a "budget"
...or what is a rough "entrance fee"?



and in my very humble opinion.. having a 200k USD budget should be sufficient for buying a 38+ foot cat that most would consider (at min) comfortable and seaworthy

[rabbi]

The problem is he did not ask for an entrance fee for 38+ft safe & comfy. That is well under 200k.

He asked for the entrance fee for 38+ft without taking on a project boat. That is where the discussion starts. What is a project boat?

To me this is a well kept production boat well under 10 years old with a good maintenance record, so I feel confident that I can sail a season or two without bothering about anything.

To others the same wording means something totally different.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

The problem is he did not ask for an entrance fee for 38+ft safe & comfy. That is well under 200k.

He asked for the entrance fee for 38+ft without taking on a project boat. That is where the discussion starts. What is a project boat?

To me this is a well kept production boat well under 10 years old with a good maintenance record, so I feel confident that I can sail a season or two without bothering about anything.

To others the same wording means something totally different.

I think you’ve described the type catamaran that you prefer but it’s got nothing to do with being a project boat or not.
An example would be the Lagoon 450 with bulkhead problems. Could be the best maintained Lagoon in the world but it could also turn into an exceedingly expensive project boat, in both time and money.

[rabbi]

As said: "To me this is" but you certainly have a point. Production boats -even fairly new ones- can be expensive project boats.

However with production boats there is at least a chance to identify potential issues like the one you mentioned before buying. With low volume, one-off, DIY not so much

[team karst]

Having just prepped a used cat for cruising, i will list my recent experiences.

Must haves:
Hull: must be watertight, bulkheads must be tight
Engines: must start reliably.
Saildrives: oil must be free of water
Rigging: no crevice corrosion
DC: must have 2 independent ways to charge.
Nav lights, fire safety, personal flotation intact
Dink holds air, engine reliable.

All those would be non negotiable.
A hundred more things in the next list of optional, many of which i would call necessary to make aboard life enjoyable. This is the list, where an accumulation of items can make life intolerable. ie: no a/c climate control combined with no fans, leaky hatches, hot climate, and bugs without screens.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

As said: "To me this is" but you certainly have a point. Production boats -even fairly new ones- can be expensive project boats.

However with production boats there is at least a chance to identify potential issues like the one you mentioned before buying. With low volume, one-off, DIY not so much

Absolutely agree. But from my experience a good low volume, one-off DIY boat can be a much higher quality build than the mass produced catamaran.
True, it usually won’t sell for as much as it’s not a known entity, but also true, it won’t cost as much to begin with.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by smj

True, it usually won’t sell for as much as it’s not a known entity, but also true, it won’t cost as much to begin with.

You only have to make sure you are not the first owner as he is typically the one who pays the difference between cost & effort vs. realistic market value

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

You only have to make sure you are not the first owner as he is typically the one who pays the difference between cost & effort vs. realistic market value

Absolutely! A well built one-off will typically be much more expensive initially than a production boat. But when it comes up in the used market, the second buyer gets a great deal.

[Juggerknot]

300-400K ought to get you up and running in something north of 38' according to my rudimentary search. Suerte

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by smj

I think you’ve described the type catamaran that you prefer but it’s got nothing to do with being a project boat or not.
An example would be the Lagoon 450 with bulkhead problems. Could be the best maintained Lagoon in the world but it could also turn into an exceedingly expensive project boat, in both time and money.

Much social media hysteria about this issue, labor time to upgrade the bulk heads is less than 20 hrs (most cases paid by Lagoon) + minor materials cost - so $3k approx - this is paltry compared to boat value. A dud sail drive would cost twice that.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Much social media hysteria about this issue, labor time to upgrade the bulk heads is less than 20 hrs (most cases paid by Lagoon) + minor materials cost - so $3k approx - this is paltry compared to boat value. A dud sail drive would cost twice that.

It just wonders me what a manufacturer like Lagoon can continously f.... up and present the worst aftersales support and people buy this and call it a media hype and bombard them with orders, really?

Thats completly wrong, its a structural design issue and your 3k is the typical Lagoon patchup solution to get you past their warranty time in best case if you use the 450F offshore.
To fix that correctly due to my surveyor (who.is a naval ingeneer) and the boatbulider that just fixes my FP extraoridinary well you are looking at well above 50k+, its the whole main bulkhead construction that need to be cut out completly and replaced by a massive bulkhead and surroundings need a lot reenforcments that must be laminated in to fix that correctly, to so for that you need full access to the total main bulkhead from all sides=dismantle both hulls bow and bridgedeck nearly completly to get full access.he just denied fixing one as he prefers to fix a grounded Amel next.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Much social media hysteria about this issue, labor time to upgrade the bulk heads is less than 20 hrs (most cases paid by Lagoon) + minor materials cost - so $3k approx - this is paltry compared to boat value. A dud sail drive would cost twice that.

As CaptainRivet stated, the Lagoon bulkhead fix is a joke in my opinion.