What length Catamaran

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

It's interesting that most everyone seems to think they have to have a 40 foot or much bigger boat. This is true on monos as well. In the late 70 the AVERAGE size cruising mono for a family of 4 was 27'.

Every year the boats get bigger. It's how the mfr's have a new thing you must buy. Do you really need that much boat? .

The crazy thing is you can say that about most things in life these days. In the 70’s the average size of a home was less than 1/2 the square footage of what it is today. Park a 1973 Porsche 911 next to a 2023 911 and it looks gigantic!

Progress? Not so sure, but people vote with their checkbook so it’s hard to stand in the way.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Now you've opted for some workable info here's what you need.. https://www.catamarans.com/used-sail...0/calma/256824

flybridges are not safe.. and too many hulls.


/s

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by chubby

flybridges are not safe.. and too many hulls.


/s

I agree on the flybridge opinion having transated a few but.. its what you get over a certain size if you want a 'cruising cat' with all the bells and whistles..
As for too many hulls.. I'm broadminded..

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by chubby

flybridges are not safe.. and too many hulls.

I’ve never sailed on a flybridge catamaran, but Cat Impi have got more miles than most on their modified L440F and they love their flybridge.

Not sure what you mean with your too many hulls comment, but that’s totally off topic so will ignore.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I
Not sure what you mean with your too many hulls comment, but that’s totally off topic so will ignore.

There are frequently multihull haters who feels they have to stick their oar in on threads in the "Multihull Sailboats" sub forum.I thnk it may be jealousy

But in this case I think the "/s" was meant to denote sarcasm and was actually a dig at those haters.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by StuM

There are frequently multihull haters who feels they have to stick their oar in on threads in the "Multihull Sailboats" sub forum.I thnk it may be jealousy

But in this case I think the "/s" was meant to denote sarcasm and was actually a dig at those haters.

I don't hate multi's, I've owned two and loved them.. mind you, they were open deck boats, none of this pussy bridgedeck saloon crap..

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by S.S.Minnow

Hello all, first post and have a few questions about selecting the correct rig.
We have been casually looking at Cats for many years now and are finally in a position where we can move forward. We have done the catamaran tourist charter thingy and feel this might be right up our alley. Currently land locked traveling around in a Winnebago so used to the camping style of life.
My question is while there will be two of us onboard full time at what point does a Catamaran become too much for one individual to handle under sail?
Our experience is limited to a 1970 Seacraft 12' Sealight. Which does not sound like much but it really is allot of fun in our smaller local lakes.

What length Cat gets to be a little too much to handle if only one individual was available under sail?
Are there specific Manufacturers that are more single hand friendly?
Not against new rigs but the Wolf may prefer the price point of lightly used.
Thank you in advance for your time.
Skipper.

What’s your budget for the cat?
Sweet spot in cats is 44ft.
Another important question is do you want owner version=one hull for you with a head you will use 15min a day max or 4 cabin charter version where you use that extra cabin as walk in wardrobe and or storage/wash/room and another one as workshop…I have a 40ft owner cat and enough space but I regret the owners version as that extra room would keep the the whole cat much more tidy…and the 4 cabins version are cheaper and easier to find.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

This definitely is a personal preference type of thing. The list of questions I’d ask yourselves (as my wife and I did) are:

1) what are your plans with the cat. Blue water cruising the world crossing oceans or island hopping the Bahamas/Caribbean
2) do you really care about the sailing aspect of the adventure. Performance or comfort (or both)
3) Budget - you can have all the features you dream of, but don’t buy a boat that you can only marginally afford. My rule of thumb is if you are living abroad don’t have the boat be more than 20% of your overall net worth, preferably closer to 5%.
4) 40-45 feet cats have about the optimal interior volume for couple.
5) 50 foot cats and larger have a better motion at sea, the extra length means a better ride and less hobby horsing
6) Quality of construction. There is nothing wrong with polyester balsa cored glued together boats that weighs 20T, but just don’t be fooled by the salesperson that it’s going to hold up in the same manner that a boat built specifically for crossing oceans will. You get what you pay for.
7) payload capacity- are you going to have lots of stuff? Start a list with what everything weighs because cats don’t like to be overloaded.
8) get a whole lot of experience chartering and visiting boat shows so you can know what it’s like to sail a slow condo cat that’s comfy as well as a light performance boat that’s cramped. Take a bunch of test sails with various manufacturers.
9) give yourself a couple of years to go through the learning and exploration phase….it is part of the fun
10) whatever boat you choose,, someone out there will tell you why your decision sucks.
11) once you actually get out there, the community is freaking awesome and the people are extremely helpful and could care less if you are on a 30 year old charter boat and a brand new multi million dollar rocket ship. The sunsets are the same for everyone.
12) Realize that 2 years in you’ll probably know a hell of a lot more and want to change the boat to one that suits how you live and sail. You don’t know what you don’t know.

That’s about it, if you’d share more, like your plans for cruising grounds and rough budget for the boat, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of feedback on good cats to consider.

Very good list and advice
Also to add maintenance cost go exponentially up, hockey stick is at around 44ft (mass production cats) and eg number of boatyards that can haul bigger then 44ft cats out is small which means less places to fix it if something breaks and that will…
I love dogs…2 Dobermanns on a cat, holy Moses. I would take them both on a long passage to try out how they can deal with that, they need a lot moving around which they won‘t get on a cat.

My advise would be get yourself the smallest cat you feel good on. Think about yourself, not friends and family. For that short periods when they are on board you can make compromises…

[smj]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

What’s your budget for the cat?
Sweet spot in cats is 44ft.
Another important question is do you want owner version=one hull for you with a head you will use 15min a day max or 4 cabin charter version where you use that extra cabin as walk in wardrobe and or storage/wash/room and another one as workshop…I have a 40ft owner cat and enough space but I regret the owners version as that extra room would keep the the whole cat much more tidy…and the 4 cabins version are cheaper and easier to find.

I would never own a 44’ cat, either a 43’er or 45’er would be fine, but never 44’........,

[S.S.Minnow]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

What’s your budget for the cat?
Sweet spot in cats is 44ft.
Another important question is do you want owner version=one hull for you with a head you will use 15min a day max or 4 cabin charter version where you use that extra cabin as walk in wardrobe and or storage/wash/room and another one as workshop…I have a 40ft owner cat and enough space but I regret the owners version as that extra room would keep the the whole cat much more tidy…and the 4 cabins version are cheaper and easier to find.

Budget would like to stay under 7 figures, new or lightly used.
3 or 4 cabins no matter, good point on 4.
Size just want something big enough not to feel like a bobber when anchored or underway.

[S.S.Minnow]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Very good list and advice
Also to add maintenance cost go exponentially up, hockey stick is at around 44ft (mass production cats) and eg number of boatyards that can haul bigger then 44ft cats out is small which means less places to fix it if something breaks and that will…
I love dogs…2 Dobermanns on a cat, holy Moses. I would take them both on a long passage to try out how they can deal with that, they need a lot moving around which they won‘t get on a cat.

My advise would be get yourself the smallest cat you feel good on. Think about yourself, not friends and family. For that short periods when they are on board you can make compromises…

Two dogs is not ideal for sure. Part of the reason a bigger cat appeals to me as they do need room but a lightly used 50' quickly surpass my budget. The long passage part will be limited to island hopping around the Caribbean.

[S.S.Minnow]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

This definitely is a personal preference type of thing. The list of questions I’d ask yourselves (as my wife and I did) are:

1) what are your plans with the cat. Blue water cruising the world crossing oceans or island hopping the Bahamas/Caribbean
2) do you really care about the sailing aspect of the adventure. Performance or comfort (or both)
3) Budget - you can have all the features you dream of, but don’t buy a boat that you can only marginally afford. My rule of thumb is if you are living abroad don’t have the boat be more than 20% of your overall net worth, preferably closer to 5%.
4) 40-45 feet cats have about the optimal interior volume for couple.
5) 50 foot cats and larger have a better motion at sea, the extra length means a better ride and less hobby horsing
6) Quality of construction. There is nothing wrong with polyester balsa cored glued together boats that weighs 20T, but just don’t be fooled by the salesperson that it’s going to hold up in the same manner that a boat built specifically for crossing oceans will. You get what you pay for.
7) payload capacity- are you going to have lots of stuff? Start a list with what everything weighs because cats don’t like to be overloaded.
8) get a whole lot of experience chartering and visiting boat shows so you can know what it’s like to sail a slow condo cat that’s comfy as well as a light performance boat that’s cramped. Take a bunch of test sails with various manufacturers.
9) give yourself a couple of years to go through the learning and exploration phase….it is part of the fun
10) whatever boat you choose,, someone out there will tell you why your decision sucks.
11) once you actually get out there, the community is freaking awesome and the people are extremely helpful and could care less if you are on a 30 year old charter boat and a brand new multi million dollar rocket ship. The sunsets are the same for everyone.
12) Realize that 2 years in you’ll probably know a hell of a lot more and want to change the boat to one that suits how you live and sail. You don’t know what you don’t know.

That’s about it, if you’d share more, like your plans for cruising grounds and rough budget for the boat, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of feedback on good cats to consider.

1) Where? Island hope around the Caribbean to start.
2) Wanna sail or float? Both... I am used to fast cars, fast power boats, stupid fast snowmobiles. Tooling around at 6 knots is fine until I get passed. Will lean more towards comfort but still would like to break 10-12 knots with ease.
3) $$$ ? Would like to stay under or just 7 figures.
4) Size? Above 40, anything above 50 is too much boat for a couple with limited experience. Plan is to charter a captain for training and the necessary certifications on our boat of choice.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by S.S.Minnow

1) Where? Island hope around the Caribbean to start.

2) Wanna sail or float? Both... I am used to fast cars, fast power boats, stupid fast snowmobiles. Tooling around at 6 knots is fine until I get passed. Will lean more towards comfort but still would like to break 10-12 knots with ease.

3) $$$ ? Would like to stay under or just 7 figures.

4) Size? Above 40, anything above 50 is too much boat for a couple with limited experience. Plan is to charter a captain for training and the necessary certifications on our boat of choice.

Your first cat is not what you will end up wanting after a few years and you actually gain cruising experience. Take the pressure off and just get whatever reasonable and smaller cat that you’ll be happy with in the near term. Spend less money and have a boat you can more easily sell (low to mid 6 figures). Heck, even a Lagoon 380, you just want to get out there.

Then you can decide based on your own experience galley up/down, owners/charter layout, helm position, sailing ability, etc, etc, etc. As well, if you decide that a more performant cat is your preference, you really should develop extensive cat sailing experience before getting that kind of cat.

Note that on a beam reach and reasonable wind that 10-12 knots boat speed is not that hard for pretty much any cruising cat to attain. Attaining or breaking 10-12 knots with ease will take a lighter or much larger cat. Your just 7 figures will not buy that boat unless you go old (which is not necessarily a bad thing, nothing wrong with 20 year old cats and arguably generally better put together than more recent builds).

[chubby]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Your first cat is not what you will end up wanting after a few years and you actually gain cruising experience. Take the pressure off and just get whatever reasonable and smaller cat that you’ll be happy with in the near term. Spend less money and have a boat you can more easily sell (low to mid 6 figures). Heck, even a Lagoon 380, you just want to get out there.

Then you can decide based on your own experience galley up/down, owners/charter layout, helm position, sailing ability, etc, etc, etc. As well, if you decide that a more performant cat is your preference, you really should develop extensive cat sailing experience before getting that kind of cat.

Note that on a beam reach and reasonable wind that 10-12 knots boat speed is not that hard for pretty much any cruising cat to attain. Attaining or breaking 10-12 knots with ease will take a lighter or much larger cat. Your just 7 figures will not buy that boat unless you go old (which is not necessarily a bad thing, nothing wrong with 20 year old cats and arguably generally better put together than more recent builds).

personally, i'd only buy new IF were putting into it intocharter or i knew EXACTLY what i desired in my saiboat (meaning what i wanted is not available....ie i need to have it built to get what i wanted)





imo, rising interest rates and a (slowly) increasing new boat inventory tends to create nice little markets for cash buyers of a used sailboats.

accounting for inflation.. i believe cats depreciate ~7% per year.
i do not believe our OP will have difficulty achieving his goals for a 1M budget (and equipped with desired lightwind sail/code zero and bow sprit..)













for guidance on navigating the distortions caused by the pandemic/PPP loans clownshows .. just keep an eye on US used vehicle wholesale auctions... (prices have been steadily declining)


it will be interesting to see how much of a haircut (if any) folks that bought at elevated a pandemic prices would be willing to accept...
would they take a bitcoin type loss just to get out now? ...or just "sit" on the depreciated asset and continue cruising while waiting for "inflation" to save them(while risking a larger loss)..

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by chubby

personally, i'd only buy new IF were putting into it intocharter or i knew EXACTLY what i desired in my saiboat (meaning what i wanted is not available....ie i need to have it built to get what i wanted)





imo, rising interest rates and a (slowly) increasing new boat inventory tends to create nice little markets for cash buyers of a used sailboats.

accounting for inflation.. i believe cats depreciate ~7% per year.
i do not believe our OP will have difficulty achieving his goals for a 1M budget (and equipped with desired lightwind sail/code zero and bow sprit..)













for guidance on navigating the distortions caused by the pandemic/PPP loans clownshows .. just keep an eye on US used vehicle wholesale auctions... (prices have been steadily declining)


it will be interesting to see how much of a haircut (if any) folks that bought at elevated a pandemic prices would be willing to accept...
would they take a bitcoin type loss just to get out now? ...or just "sit" on the depreciated asset and continue cruising while waiting for "inflation" to save them(while risking a larger loss)..

Only issue with your plan is that it doesn't work out that way in reality. The Lagoon 42 that I could by in 2016 for $410k now sells for $410k well used. Zero depreciation. This is more of a function that a new one will cost you $630k because of inflation and the natural evolution of features & product design.

Yes there are examples in the last 20 years where occasionally the markets got wonky and cash could score you an amazing deal, but there equal number of times where the chart flipped and boats appreciated in value.

It is just money and you cannot take it with you, buy the boat you want & can afford. Do not wait around a year or two to try and save $100k, your time is worth more than that and you could easily end up betting wrong.