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04-07-2015, 09:14
#
151
transmitterdan
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,008
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
I think there are multiple and varied reasons for not wanting to sail at night. For example, many age related vision problems become significantly worse at night. Perhaps more significantly we live our lives as if the dark is a "bad thing". Every year more and more cities are as bright at night as during the day. We are conditioned from an early age to fear a dark alley at night. All these things conspire to make night more stressful than the day. And long passages add to the stress. As with most things one solution is to just go and do it even if you don't like the idea. Once done the next time will be easier and before long even enjoyable. When I tell people that my wife and I love to
scuba
dive at night they look at us like we have tree limbs growing out of our heads.
Night sailing has a lot of advantages such as no need of sunscreen or
air conditioning
. Generally there is less chance of
collision
owing to reduced traffic. And it means you can enjoy more
anchorages
during the day. In many places fair winds will be easier to exploit by sailing at night.
But to the original question, I don't think there is a significant difference in the proportion of mono or multi
hull
boats
motoring without
sails
. Both groups do it a lot but not anywhere close to 100% of the time.
04-07-2015, 10:00
#
152
Kenomac
cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BadKitty
I don't
motor
100% of the time, very little as a matter of fact.
Question - I watch monos at
anchor
swaying back and forth - why is that?
Nice one.
Fortunately, we're not swaying here nearly as much as when we were on the Spanish coast. That definitely got ugly at times. Off the Guernsey coast... really ugly sway. Off St. Peter Port, Guernsey, even the catamarans left the rocky rolly anchorage. I stayed... It was gross.
04-07-2015, 10:03
#
153
Bulawayo
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,352
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ranger42c
How big does a cat have to be to include a
walkaround
queen berth?
The only one I'm aware of is something like a 46' Endeavor, but to do that, the master isn't down in the hulls.
-Chris
Leopard 43.
04-07-2015, 13:16
#
154
jmschmidt
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,540
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
There several reasons, one of which you stated, many sailors don't really like the way they sail (I'm one of those). Others are: Many people who
charter
cats in places like
Tahiti
(Europeans, by my observation) don't really like or know how to sail, especially the
women
. I've helped a few off the
reefs
. The
charter
companies usually prove free
fuel
for sailing cats, no so for
power
cats. That's why I mostly
motor
them when I charter. It's a big hassle to hoist, trim and douse
sails
when your cat is filled with non-sailor guests. For sure there are probably more reasons.
04-07-2015, 13:34
#
155
44'cruisingcat
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
Images:
69
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kenomac
A constructive answer/contribution would be more appreciated. The same for SimonV.
Thanks
Ken
How about a sensible, constructive thread?
Anyway YOU'RE the one who says cats motor 100% of the time. I never knew that until I read YOUR opening post.
So why even ask how a particular cat' sails? You already know the answer - like all cat's it motors 100% of the time.
Just realised, we have nearly 25,000 miles logged, and about 1000
engine
hours. So we motor at an average of 25 knots! Given that a fair number of the
engine
hours is spent
anchoring
etc, we must be motoring at around 30 knots on passage! Pretty impressive for a 44 foot
boat
with 20 hp outboards!
04-07-2015, 13:46
#
156
Bulawayo
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,352
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
44'cruisingcat
Yeah, cat's just can't sail to windward.
04-07-2015, 13:59
#
157
Bulawayo
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,352
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jmschmidt
There several reasons, one of which you stated, many sailors don't really like the way they sail (I'm one of those). Others are: Many people who charter cats in places like
Tahiti
(Europeans, by my observation) don't really like or know how to sail, especially the
women
. I've helped a few off the
reefs
. The charter companies usually prove free
fuel
for sailing cats, no so for
power
cats. That's why I mostly motor them when I charter. It's a big hassle to hoist, trim and douse sails when your cat is filled with non-sailor guests. For sure there are probably more reasons.
Hi JMSchmidt - I'm trying to understand your
posting
? You dont like the way cats sail?
You mean you dont like that catamarans can be quick? That they sail fairly flat? That its possible to eat and make hot drinks when the
weather
is not so good? That they usually have good sized cockpits compared to the equivalent sized
monohull
? Or do you mean you dont like that a cat will usually keep moving with minimal breeze? Or maybe you dont like the dead down
wind
motion as they generally do not yaw like a mono-hull? Or is that you can go to your
bed
and not have to use a lee-cloth?
Possibly you can explain what you dont like and also why do you keep chartering them if you dont like the way they sail? If you have non-sailing guests why dont you show them the benefits of sailing? That can be on a mono-hull or on a cat. There is nothing wrong with mono-hulls if that is what you prefer but don't go round knocking catamarans - especially when you seem to prefer chartering them. Seems rather odd.....
04-07-2015, 14:23
#
158
Cruisingoneday
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Boat: Acapulco 40
Posts: 32
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
It
Sent from my
iPhone
using Cruisers Sailing )88.8b x I I I chibihihuvi huhivbuvhh bin I in. Hi. Bob. Vjboibjvjvvhb qs. Onoñgjh jjjbnnbj💌💌
04-07-2015, 16:11
#
159
D&D
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Boat: now skippering Syd Harbour charters
Posts: 1,557
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
weavis
Actually, it was a little offensive. You need to
work
on your sense of humour and your tactics for retaliation when confronted about something. You didnt shine bright in the
funny
posts section.
We return only to express sincere regret to any/all we offended.
We certainly did not intend or expect a purely (and, we thought, obviously) rhetorical question -- It was actually the 'classic' example used back in the Captain's days in law
school
-- would offend. It seems we were wrong.
It also seems we need to check our sense of humour to ensure we do not offend in the joke thread.
Wishing you all safe sailing...or, for you cat sailors, safe motoring...
04-07-2015, 16:16
#
160
colemj
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images:
12
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cruisingoneday
It
Sent from my
iPhone
using Cruisers Sailing )88.8b x I I I chibihihuvi huhivbuvhh bin I in. Hi. Bob. Vjboibjvjvvhb qs. Onoñgjh jjjbnnbj💌💌
Without a doubt, this is the most sensible post on this thread. Maybe on the entire forum.
If it is OK with you, I would like to borrow your sub-phrase "chibihihuvi huhivbuvhh bin". I think I will find it handy in the future here…
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
04-07-2015, 16:22
#
161
colemj
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images:
12
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
D&D
We return only to express sincere regret to any/all we offended.
We certainly did not intend or expect a purely (and, we thought, obviously) rhetorical question -- It was actually the 'classic' example used back in the Captain's days in law
school
-- would offend. It seems we were wrong.
It also seems we need to check our sense of humour to ensure we do not offend in the joke thread.
Wishing you all safe sailing...or, for you cat sailors, safe motoring...
This isn't the joke thread? Dang, I gotta get better glasses.
BTW, I think most people's sensitivities are such that they saw your extremely common colloquial expression as the
classic
use example it has always been. It is difficult to believe anyone would interpret it personally or else-wise - but there you go.
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
04-07-2015, 16:47
#
162
UNCIVILIZED
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
If anyone genuinely wants to know the answer to this question, it is well explained & pretty much answered in this article
Considerations for Seaworthiness
And to cut to the important bits of it:
If we apply the same treatment to the underwater shape and
keel
of a
multihull
by superimposing the results of tank testing on the
boat
, in the same way as we did for the sails in Fig 6, we find that the effect of drag of the
keel
and the hulls on the pointing ability is as follows:
25% decrease in keel efficiency = total loss in tacking angle of 5 degrees.
Double
hull
weight = total loss in tacking angle of 6 degrees.
if we include the
lift
to drag factors of the sails:
16% decrease in sail area = total loss in tacking angle of 4 degrees.
35% increase in aerodynamic parasitic drag = total loss in tacking angle of 6 degrees.
The total of all these factors is a loss in tacking angle of 21 degrees.
If we compare an open bridgedeck cat of type 6 to an older type of
multihull
, this is exactly the sort of difference in pointing ability we observe.
When compared to a design of type 1 or4 the modern multihull is much more streamlined, about half the weight, has an efficient keel, wide width for high stability and sail carrying power, and larger rig. All these features combine together to give a windward performance better than any equivalent sized
monohull
.
Since the linked article was penned, cat's have only gotten (a LOT) fatter, & (FAR) higher in terms of windage. And most of their crap performance is common sense. ~ In a nutshell...
- Horrid; hull, keel, &
rudder
shapes x2
- Crap rig designs, set up purely for convenience, sans nods to performance.
- Weight 2x that of any monohull of the same length.
- More windage, & drag than a 1,500sqft Ranch Style house.
- Owners who don't know hot to, & or give a rat's ass as to the basics of proper sailing (techniques & gear).
Most of which, it seems, that the majority of cruising cat owners understand (to some degree), but are aghast at even the thought of giving up even some of said "features". Siting the loss of a few luxury amenities which 99% of the world's population will never have.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life)
:
Making Promises to Yourself, And
Keeping Them.
04-07-2015, 17:16
#
163
weavis
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
colemj
This isn't the joke thread? Dang, I gotta get better glasses.
BTW, I think most people's sensitivities are such that they saw your extremely common colloquial expression as the
classic
use example it has always been. It is difficult to believe anyone would interpret it personally or else-wise - but there you go.
Mark
To paraphrase you with a slight adjustment, "Please dont tell me what I think".
I've never heard the "colloquial" expression before. I guess the 4 people who commented to me privately had never heard it either. In any event, several of us dumb asses found it a little out of place.
Sometimes its hard to please anybody never mind everybody.
It takes time to
work
out the personality of a thread opener, and like in this thread, the title is a little ....... i cant even think of a phrase for it, blurted observational?
Again to paraphrase you "its difficult to believe anyone would interpret it Literally...." Its a non starter as a title and yet people accepted what it was and responded.......
I have always held you in the highest regard for your
Catamaran
knowledge and general understanding of seamanship. Sometimes I have to filter out the caustic retorts and sharp snipes and watch in awe at the fights that develop between you and other professionals. Occasionally they are so outrageous that I curl up laughing at the sheer sarcasm and sometimes I wince at the put downs. It does not take away from the respect for abilities I perceive in you, but is uncomfortable at times when it jabs at others.
I guess Im saying here that its fine to be ourselves, for that is who we are. It is not so fine to be unkind in general and make assumptions that people are as smart as we are, I obviously failed your assumption. Id like to say Im sorry for being a dumbass in your eyes, but in reality I dont give a stuff.
Im still going to read your comments for the wisdom they hold at times in relation to sailing and Catamarans, I hope you can forgive me for that. Im still going to recommend others to read those comments of yours.
Im also going to hope that others look past the caustic presentation and see the helpful and informed person you are.
I can go on in this vein forever. It gets very annoying after a while.
Im a firm follower of Napoleon Bonapartes observations on life. If situations and relationships cannot be mended, he stated:
"Never stand in the way of an enemy when he is making a mistake."
I will put myself out on a limb and assume you are smarter than the average bear and understand what Im saying.
And if you dont, or dont want to, I guess I will not have to give a stuff about that either.......
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
04-07-2015, 17:55
#
164
weavis
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Im almost back to the
dock
. Ive had the engine on for the past 2.3 hours. Its a Tri.
Water
is flat and
wind
is absent. Nephew is holding the tiller and Im
cooking
and writing
med
reports and answering posts.
Im disappointed. Its July and time for me to put up the sails. Im sure they need airing and wind in them or something to shake out the wrinkles from last July.. if it goes on like this, I might just have to send them straight to the cleaners.
I was in
Holland
a few weeks ago, and was amazed how much room there is on
boats
with no Masts..........no
rigging
to get in the way or lines to trip over. Such a clever idea.
I think I would miss sailing though. Eventually when time and circumstance come together and the sails go up and get trimmed, the engine is switched off and the boat surges forward, there is nothing like it. After 15 minutes when it all has settled into the rythm and motion, a sense of belonging and sharing comes over me and a relaxation of spirit that little else manages. Its not the speed, although a fair return on the wind is appreciated, Its not whether its cold or hot, although warm is nice, its more the appreciation for life and sharing the
water
. Whether miles
offshore
or passing quaint fisherman cottages in an estuary, there is this sense of being part of earth, a special part. I never felt this in a fast motorboat.
I missed not sailing in tonight. Its just the way it is. I hope I never get too busy to not enjoy sailing.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
04-07-2015, 17:55
#
165
blackcrow
cruiser
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 30
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
I do not know for the rest of the world but last summer I was in
Croatia
for almost three months, I also barely saw any
catamaran
sailing, actually I still remember one time there was Mistral or how they say locally Maestral. Boats coming down that "canal", between shore an those islands before Dubrovnik. there were 5 boats, 4 catamarans and one monohull, only monohull were sailing all 4 catamarans were on motor, and as far as I can
recall
three had Australian and one German flag, so no chartered boats.
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