Why so many Lagoons on the market?

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

If they are so great and popular and demand is so high why are people selling them and why are so many available unsold?

Because people buying them secondhand are generally couples wanting an owner's version, and the charter companies push people into buying 4C/4H versions which no one really wants in a 40-42ft cat, which is the larger portion of the market (less people can afford a 44ft+).

If you were buying a boat to liveaboard would you want two comfortably sized nice bathrooms for you and the occasional other couple as guests, or four small cramped bathrooms with all the associated extra maintenance and being stuck with wet heads. They both cost about the same new, but the 4H versions typically sell for 100-200k less than owner's versions, which probably just about wipes out the profit made from chartering it.

Anyway, that's why they sit unsold so long, no one really wants 4H on the boats that are sized well for couples, and that's the largest part of the secondhand market. If you're spending that much, you want to get the boat you want, and doing a major structural remodel is asking too much for most, while raising questions for resale.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Lance

You must remember these boats are predominantly designed as luxury living accommodation vessels essentially limited to life in the LAGOON .
They are just motor sailors and if considering ocean cruising your actual sailing ability will be hampered and uncomfortable because of low bridge deck clearance , huge weight , and low aspect fat hulls with slow SOG.
Your wife would not be the first lady to demand to go home after ocean passage one .
There are many capable alternatives out there and if you choose wisely you could find a Cat that has the bonus of positive bouyancy .

antilagoon keyboard army out in full force.

so, have you explained why lagoons are among fastest when crossing oceans looking at ARC or similar? And performance cats repeatedly dissapoint ?

is this because their design is better, using latest knowledge of hydrodynamics?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

Because people buying them secondhand are generally couples wanting an owner's version, and the charter companies push people into buying 4C/4H versions which no one really wants in a 40-42ft cat, which is the larger portion of the market (less people can afford a 44ft+).

That's partially true but I think the reason people might not want them is because they were charter cats. They are generally bare bones for bare boating and rode hard and put up wet. It can take a lot of effort ($$$$) to get them to acceptable cruising specs. Sometimes the owners versions are a waste of space anyway with just a couch in the center which people have said here they have never used. The extra cabins are great for storage, pantries or workshops.
Bobber

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

That's partially true but I think the reason people might not want them is because they were charter cats. They are generally bare bones for bare boating and rode hard and put up wet. It can take a lot of effort ($$$$) to get them to acceptable cruising specs. Sometimes the owners versions are a waste of space anyway with just a couch in the center which people have said here they have never used. The extra cabins are great for storage, pantries or workshops.
Bobber

Yeah, newer models seem to be ditching the useless couches and increasing storage space or having a desk there instead. It's the 4 head models that really sit on the market long, or end up really marked down. With a 4 cabin model, you can always just use the extra cabin for storage in the "owners" hull, and if there's only two heads, then they're each a nice size with a separate shower area, dry head. The 4H versions have 4 cramped wet heads, like the worst of all worlds. That might be my pet peeve if you can tell

[75Driver]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

That's partially true but I think the reason people might not want them is because they were charter cats. They are generally bare bones for bare boating and rode hard and put up wet. It can take a lot of effort ($$$$) to get them to acceptable cruising specs. Sometimes the owners versions are a waste of space anyway with just a couch in the center which people have said here they have never used. The extra cabins are great for storage, pantries or workshops.
Bobber

Mostly agree but we are unlikely to buy a charter version no matter what. Im of the opinion owner operators take better care of their boats vs charter operators. If there is an unnecessary sofa somewhere and it’s a premium price for an owner boat we’re paying it. Everyone is in a different situation but it would take something extraordinary for us to consider a previous charter.

Many of the Lagoons on the market are former charters and they show. You can tell they’ve been detailed and spiffed up but there is considerable wear and tear. Some of the brokers descriptions are almost comical while others are honest and tell you they are fleet boats. I can’t imagine there is much market for an investment charter boat and an even worse market for boats leaving charter fleets. I think that’s one of the reasons you see so many Lagoons stay on the market forever.

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by Lance

You must remember these boats are predominantly designed as luxury living accommodation vessels essentially limited to life in the LAGOON .
They are just motor sailors and if considering ocean cruising your actual sailing ability will be hampered and uncomfortable because of low bridge deck clearance , huge weight , and low aspect fat hulls with slow SOG.
Your wife would not be the first lady to demand to go home after ocean passage one .
There are many capable alternatives out there and if you choose wisely you could find a Cat that has the bonus of positive bouyancy .

Comments like above are just absurd. Slow SOG - what do you describe as slow SOG. We constantly average 8 knots, thats average in our L440. I love my comfort but also love the fact that our 440 (and our previous 410) are excellent sea boats. Have a look at the blog of Cat Impi or the other Lagoons doing ocean passages or circumnavigations. As for low bridge deck, what a load of crap, Lagoons have excellent bridge deck clearance. Of course they get an occasional slap but very very little slam.


Greg H
Lagoon 440

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Barra

^^^

Well I can see how you are able to rub people the wrong way.

Never said half the straw man arguments you are trying to put in my mouth.
I have simply pointed out a few facts. Primarily that lagoons are not rigid boats. You can choose to believe that isn't an issue but you can't deny it's a fact.

I guess you are just an argumentative sod and life is too short for that so I will leave you to argue with someone else.

hahaha, lagoons not rigid. Can you provide some evidence ?

Here is evidence that performance cruising cats are not very fast when one needs to cross ocean - because load carrying ability is inadequate. They arfe ideal coastal cruisers though.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

hahaha, lagoons not rigid. Can you provide some evidence ?

Here is evidence that performance cruising cats are not very fast when one needs to cross ocean - because load carrying ability is inadequate. They arfe ideal coastal cruisers though.

Ahh, the ARC is a rally, not a race, though some perceive it to be a race.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Ahh, the ARC is a rally, not a race, though some perceive it to be a race.

bit worn out excuse.

For me speed on multiday ocean crossing is the most important. You have no idea what weather will do 6 and more days ahead so being as fast as possible is the risk reduction strategy that one should use and have boat ready for challenges.

In coastal cruising, reaching next bar in time is important and this is mostly day sail.

[JamesPNW]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

antilagoon keyboard army out in full force.



so, have you explained why lagoons are among fastest when crossing oceans looking at ARC or similar? And performance cats repeatedly dissapoint ?



is this because their design is better, using latest knowledge of hydrodynamics?

I don’t think there will be a balanced, objective and intelligent discussion about Lagoon Cat vs. other brands and or Monohull. There are so many bogus misinformation, incompatible comparisons or speculations that it’s not worth the time. This is a baited topic for trolling, nothing else.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by JamesPNW

I don’t think there will be a balanced, objective and intelligent discussion about Lagoon Cat vs. other brands and or Monohull. There are so many bogus misinformation, incompatible comparisons or speculations that it’s not worth the time. This is a baited topic for trolling, nothing else.

it does show CF in bad light and damages credibility, allowing this kind of talk - continuously bashing whole brand in public - without any substance. In olden days of pre-lawless internet this would not be allowed.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it does show CF in bad light and damages credibility, allowing this kind of talk - continuously bashing whole brand in public - without any substance. In olden days of pre-lawless internet this would not be allowed.

Curious, what would you suggest, censorship of anything that YOU think is wrong or shouldn't be allowed?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Curious, what would you suggest, censorship of anything that YOU think is wrong or shouldn't be allowed?

Evidence for whatever claim would be step forward. So one can assign weight to the argument.

There is nothing that prohibits 20 paid bloggers to pretend to be brand xxx boat owners and make whatever claims and noise they are paid for.

But see that facebook is the same so, nothing will change.

Really one should be very careful when doing research on internet. Independent research is really what is needed but we are just too lazy sometimes even for large ticket items and take risk instead.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Evidence for whatever claim would be step forward. So one can assign weight to the argument.

There is nothing that prohibits 20 paid bloggers to pretend to be brand xxx boat owners and make whatever claims and noise they are paid for.

But see that facebook is the same so, nothing will change.

Really one should be very careful when doing research on internet. Independent research is really what is needed but we are just too lazy sometimes even for large ticket items and take risk instead.

Yeah, I see what you mean, why, some people make outrageous performance and speed claims, clearly don't know what sails they are using, all without any independent verification of the claims made. Shouldn't be allowed.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Yeah, I see what you mean, why, some people make outrageous performance and speed claims, clearly don't know what sails they are using, all without any independent verification of the claims made. Shouldn't be allowed.

you actually have memory. Wow, unusual for keyboard warrior.
I dont see exaggerated claims. My numbers are lower than Monte, that also had L 400 and has done 6000 NM boat review. Have a look if you that interested. This numbers are valid for my boat and my skills. So feel free to believe or not.

Although we live on board, boat is quite light for lagoon and has relatively new sails. On top of that I am physicist and enjoy studying physics of sailing. And here and there I get improvement ideas probably others do not.

I dont claim every lagoon blahblah, like number of characters above. Doubt they are ex lagoon employees that would be only credible to talk that way.

Enjoy 2021.