Why so many Lagoons on the market?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

hahaha, lagoons not rigid. Can you provide some evidence ?

Here is evidence that performance cruising cats are not very fast when one needs to cross ocean - because load carrying ability is inadequate. They arfe ideal coastal cruisers though.

How do I read the uncorrected number of days and hours for the passage from that chart?

[smj]

2018 results. Looks like the only boats slower than the Lagoon 400 were a FP Lipari, Dean 44 and other Lagoons?

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by smj

Attachment 229746
2018 results. Looks like the only boats slower than the Lagoon 400 were a FP Lipari, Dean 44 and other Lagoons?

With 56% of the fleet Lagoons - sort of relates to the title of the post.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Paul L

How do I read the uncorrected number of days and hours for the passage from that chart?

Subtract start date and time from the finish date and time (the finish day is the day in December, so the TS 42 in class A, finished on 3rd Dec at 19:25) divide by the number of miles and that gives average speed between two points (some may have sailed longer distances for wind strategies). I think the point of the red arrows was to show vaunted Seawind performance was hardly any better than the Lagoon 400 over the 23 days crossing the Atlantic even using similar engine hrs.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Subtract start date and time from the finish date and time (the finish day is the day in December, so the TS 42 in class A, finished on 3rd Dec at 19:25) divide by the number of miles and that gives average speed between two points (some may have sailed longer distances for wind strategies). I think the point of the red arrows was to show vaunted Seawind performance was hardly any better than the Lagoon 400 over the 23 days crossing the Atlantic even using similar engine hrs.

So the Lagoon 400 is 2’ longer than the Seawind 1160 and finished 23 hours behind the 1160?

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by smj

So the Lagoon 400 is 2’ longer than the Seawind 1160 and finished 23 hours behind the 1160?

Lagoon 400 Waterline is 37'7". Average speed difference 0.2knots and L400 would carry a much bigger load. For long term cruising I would take a L400 or a 380 over a SW1160 any day, SW good for a weekend or a month maybe. Start loading a SW up and it gets slow pretty quick, as does the Fusion 40.

[75Driver]

Originally Posted by JamesPNW

I don’t think there will be a balanced, objective and intelligent discussion about Lagoon Cat vs. other brands and or Monohull. There are so many bogus misinformation, incompatible comparisons or speculations that it’s not worth the time. This is a baited topic for trolling, nothing else.

I had absolutely no idea this was a controversial subject and certainly didn’t mean to bait people in. I’m not much of a forum guy and recently discovered this message board. I just asked an honest question and it was answered. All these subsequent responses surprise me. I’d buy an owner operated Lagoon in a heart beat if it fit our needs. There are obviously lots of satisfied owners including many people here. Cheers...

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by 75Driver

I had absolutely no idea this was a controversial subject and certainly didn’t mean to bait people in. I’m not much of a forum guy and recently discovered this message board. I just asked an honest question and it was answered. All these subsequent responses surprise me. I’d buy an owner operated Lagoon in a heart beat if it fit our needs. There are obviously lots of satisfied owners including many people here. Cheers...

Have to agree with you, they are a boat that fulfills a definite niche and many love them, I just wish that some owners would accept that not everyone does and making over the top claims about the marque merly feeds the distaste that some have towards the brand. Personally I find them, with the exception of the TPI models, aesthetically displeasing and somewhat unbalanced, but that is my opinion and I would never attempt to force it onto anyone. Just accept that what one finds good others may not.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Lagoon 400 Waterline is 37'7". Average speed difference 0.2knots and L400 would carry a much bigger load. For long term cruising I would take a L400 or a 380 over a SW1160 any day, SW good for a weekend or a month maybe. Start loading a SW up and it gets slow pretty quick, as does the Fusion 40.

I would personally choose the Seawind over the Lagoon any day based on performance and build quality, but different strokes for different folks.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Lagoon 400 Waterline is 37'7". Average speed difference 0.2knots and L400 would carry a much bigger load. For long term cruising I would take a L400 or a 380 over a SW1160 any day, SW good for a weekend or a month maybe. Start loading a SW up and it gets slow pretty quick, as does the Fusion 40.

That is always the retort, because generally its difficult to disprove. "Start loading them up, and the Seawind gets slow." But in this case, the ARC rally was almost 2700 nm, and the boats were not unloaded. The Seawind crew spent the previous nine months cruising the Med, before hooking up with the rally to the Caribbean. They were loaded for long-term cruising. And in this real-life example, the Seawind 1160 finished almost a day ahead of the L400 in a 12 day "race".

Also, check your math. I assume the "finish time" is elapsed. That's 323 hrs Lagoon vs 300 hrs for the Seawind, over 2680 nm = 0.6 knot difference. (Both boats had the same amount of engine hours recorded, so that wasn't a factor in the speed shortfall.) I suspect the L400 crew noticed pretty quickly that the Seawind was sailing away from them.

That said, I do suspect there is a point at which you can load up the Seawind with so much weight that its performance begins to converge with the Lagoon. Maybe. But that would have to be a lot more stuff than this Seawind couple (and their dog), cruising the Med, away from their Australia home, required for a year.

[crayiii]

Posts like these are funny. I'm reading it in the cockpit of our Lagoon 42 at anchor. The same Lagoon that sailed from France to the Caribbean, then up the East Coast of the US to Maine, and now headed South again. We've lived full-time onboard, she's sailed nearly 12,000 NM (700 engine hours), and she looks better than new.

When planning our sailing routes we use 6.5kn as our speed and regularly average 7+. Speed demon? Nope but we also have four refrigeration units, water maker, bread maker, ice maker, yogurt maker, 49" flat screen, paddleboards, dive gear, and enough food for the two of us for months (and months).

Has she been problem free? Nope, but nothing we haven't been able to fix. Does she flex? Yup, but no more than any other cat I've sailed. Did she come from the factory ready to sail around the world? Not even close but she's ready now.

Would I like to be able to sail faster? Yes but I don't want to give up all our comforts. Would I like to point higher? Yes, we limit ourselves to 50 but with the right sea state, we'll push it to 45 if needed. Most of time though, we'll crack off the wind to pick up speed and tack more often.

To date, we've not had any structural issues. We inspect this boat very often since we are always onboard and rarely in a marina so it's for safety reasons. We haven't found any issues from flexing. Some of the bulkheads are glassed and some are glued. My understanding is that the glued bulkheads are furniture attachments and are not meant to add to the rigedity of the boat.

Obviously, these boats, like any production boat are built to a price point but when it comes to bulkhead design, I'll trust the marine engineers over the internet "engineers"

Is our boat the perfect boat? She is for us.

Happy New Year everyone!

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

That is always the retort, because generally its difficult to disprove. "Start loading them up, and the Seawind gets slow." But in this case, the ARC rally was almost 2700 nm, and the boats were not unloaded. The Seawind crew spent the previous nine months cruising the Med, before hooking up with the rally to the Caribbean. They were loaded for long-term cruising. And in this real-life example, the Seawind 1160 finished almost a day ahead of the L400 in a 12 day "race".

Also, check your math. I assume the "finish time" is elapsed. That's 323 hrs Lagoon vs 300 hrs for the Seawind, over 2680 nm = 0.6 knot difference. (Both boats had the same amount of engine hours recorded, so that wasn't a factor in the speed shortfall.) I suspect the L400 crew noticed pretty quickly that the Seawind was sailing away from them.

That said, I do suspect there is a point at which you can load up the Seawind with so much weight that its performance begins to converge with the Lagoon. Maybe. But that would have to be a lot more stuff than this Seawind couple (and their dog), cruising the Med, away from their Australia home, required for a year.

Your assumption is incorrect, elapsed time is the difference between start time and finish time. Their rally times were over 23 days not 12.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Your assumption is incorrect, elapsed time is the difference between start time and finish time. Their rally times were over 23 days not 12.

So the Lagoon 400 averaged less than 5 kts.? Wow, that’s stunning performance. But then 2700 miles would be the mileage on the rhumb line correct? So the Lagoon may have sailed 2900 miles to make their destination, then again the Seawind may have sailed 3300 miles to make their destination? All determined by the course they took? So as people have said before, it’s really hard to compare performance on the ARC as there are so many other variables.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by smj

So the Lagoon 400 averaged less than 5 kts.? Wow, that’s stunning performance. But then 2700 miles would be the mileage on the rhumb line correct? So the Lagoon may have sailed 2900 miles to make their destination, then again the Seawind may have sailed 3300 miles to make their destination? All determined by the course they took? So as people have said before, it’s really hard to compare performance on the ARC as there are so many other variables.

Yes, the sea miles may have been different, but if you really want to get a feel of how the two boats in question performed read their blogs, the Lagoon had twice as many people aboard and it stopped in the Cape Verde islands and Barbados en route as well as having their code 0 bust on the first night. The SW blog complains of poor factory fittings speeds of 3 - 4 knots, constant worry about fuel and water, I'll let the reader decide what boat they would rather be on for that particular rally.


X86 - Dances with Waves


https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ev...id=82&rtid=12#

[Tin Tin]

So half way across they are neck and neck at 6.1 knots, except the L400 decides to call in to Barbados 70 miles from the finish line before proceeding to St Lucia. So you are right unless all facts are known hard to compare apples with apples.


You can view these two by picking them as favorites in the 2017 ARC tracker and following their path daily - most of the time no real difference.
https://yb.tl/arc2017#