Why Such Long Lines?

[JPA Cate]

One possible reason for longer tails on halyards is because there may be some secondary use of the halyard that requires the long tail to work. (In our case, when we led the tail of the main halyard to the windlass, for hoisting Jim aloft.)

But scarlet is describing A LOT of extra line. I suspect that will remain a mystery. What she does on her own boat sounds very reasonable, to me.

However, if it was halyards' tails' in the way, as one isn't going to lower the halyard and remove the sail on a charter boat, one could make up the line, and leave it secured for the duration of the sail.

Also, there are ways to make up lines (larger loops) so that smaller hands can still encompass them. I, with small hands, have to make that extra effort with some of our lines. How I do it is to not coil line. I lay a forward and aft loop across my palm, each loop being double arms' distance, and ultimately finish with a few round turns, and a loop through the head, with the end of the tail through it. Done correctly, you can take off the turns, etc, then toss the line, and it will unflake, with no knots.

Ann

[SaltyMetals]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

One possible reason for longer tails on halyards is because there may be some secondary use of the halyard that requires the long tail to work. (In our case, when we led the tail of the main halyard to the windlass, for hoisting Jim aloft.)

But scarlet is describing A LOT of extra line. I suspect that will remain a mystery. What she does on her own boat sounds very reasonable, to me.

However, if it was halyards' tails' in the way, as one isn't going to lower the halyard and remove the sail on a charter boat, one could make up the line, and leave it secured for the duration of the sail.

Also, there are ways to make up lines (larger loops) so that smaller hands can still encompass them. I, with small hands, have to make that extra effort with some of our lines. How I do it is to not coil line. I lay a forward and aft loop across my palm, each loop being double arms' distance, and ultimately finish with a few round turns, and a loop through the head, with the end of the tail through it. Done correctly, you can take off the turns, etc, then toss the line, and it will unflake, with no knots.

Ann

To BenSolomon,

I used my topping lift to haul my temder onto the fore deck and regretted it. The line jumped over thedge of the sheave at the top of the mast and was comprehensively jammed. Needed to go up the mast and after a bit of struggle and some serious winch power we managed to get it back on the sheave. I should hv used a spi halyard.
Andrew

[44'cruisingcat]

Why lines 2 to 3 times longer than useable?

There's no good reason. Its stupid and dangerous. You should complain to the charter company.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by flee27

. Personally 10 extra yards on a 22' boat seems excessive. 100's of yards extra is definitely excessive for a working line IMO.

We actually cut the line in half when we bought our boat because there was so much of it!!! lol

I think on the charter when the mainsail was down, there was still 10-12 loops on the halyard... crazy! I think it really becomes a safety issue...

[Bean Counter]

Maybe original halyard was a 2:1 (ie pulley at the head of the main) and then they reverted to a 1:1. This would result in a much faster hoist and only need a halyard as 2 * as long as the mast + tail.

[jmschmidt]

It's good to have a halyard or two that will reach down to the waterline with enough working length to load on to a winch and grapple a person out of the water.

[seaskip]

+1 on bean counters idea
Also reefing lines can seem super long sometimes.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by seaskip

+1 on bean counters idea
Also reefing lines can seem super long sometimes.

It's true about the reefing line tails. When we have our 3rd reef in, the tail is quite long. But then, we make up the tails of the lines while they are in use. The only ones not done up, but just flaked are the mainsheet, and the two jib sheets. Plus, we can also store them in rope bags. But we're talking monohull here, not charter cats.

Ann

[JohnT]

If it was in the BVI's, the charter company will have all the recovered lines off boats that were damaged last year - a whole storeroom of them! If they see that a new line is needed, they just take the first lines available out of the store and pull them thru. You most probably had lines from a 50 footer stuck on your 38 footer. And none of the maintenance guys cared that they were too long.

[hellosailor]

I wonder if the simplest answer may not be the most likely one. As JohnT said, maybe they got "grabbed some new lines" and being properly religious sailors, they haven't dared to CUT those lines, even though they are too long.

Or, someone was told to go to the chandlery "and get some new lines for that boat" and picked up 100' spools of line, without anyone bothering to tell them that yes, you CAN cut those lines?

I'm afraid I might get out the whipping twine and follow jm's thoughts on those lines.

Never charter a boat if you see the las crew departing, wearing oversize sneakers, flowers in their lapels, and rainbow fright wigs. And they all climb in the glove box of one car.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by scarlet

I'm amazed at how LONG the running rigging lines are. ..... I'm obsessed with keeping my lines neat and orderly... but during some maneuvers, especially the ones that required working on multiple lines at the same time.. I had 100s of yards of line flaked out behind me..

Speaking from a cruiser's point of view...

Lines wear out.

Sometimes they fail during bad weather. (Despite best efforts at chaff relief.)

Sometimes you're someplace where quality replacements are simply unavailable. (Not within reasonable wait-times for shipping.)

Having "too long" lines means the spare is is essentially RIGHT THERE.

That flaking and stacking thing? What we do is raise the sail in port then take the excess line and secure it somewhat as shown in the image below. (Leave a couple of meters "free" in case a winch might be needed.)

[thunderhoof]

It's not difficult to determine the correct length of running rigging.
Halyards should be twice the mast height plus a boat length, slightly shorter if led to a mast winch.

Jib sheets should be about twice the boat length. This allows the lazy sheet to be led to its winch when fully sheeted in on the other side.

Spinnaker sheets about 2 1/2 boat lengths. The trimmer can move to the cabin top while trimming and still have line to work with.

You can cheat the lengths slightly shorter in some cases but that usually means a line will come out of a turning block if something goes awry.
Admittedly this is more aligned to racing practice, but cruisers should expect to end-for-end their sheets when they get frayed at stress points so they should allow a little extra length in new lines.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

To BenSolomon,

I used my topping lift to haul my temder onto the fore deck and regretted it. The line jumped over thedge of the sheave at the top of the mast and was comprehensively jammed. Needed to go up the mast and after a bit of struggle and some serious winch power we managed to get it back on the sheave. I should hv used a spi halyard.
Andrew

Hmm, I wonder why you are quoting Ann's post to address Ben ? I always use the spi halyard for the dinghy anyway. If I'd use the topping lift the boom would have to rest on the traveller and potentially rip the lazy jacks.

[hellosailor]

A topping lift normally is lead up the mast and then it turns AFT to where it comes back down to the rear of the boom. So using a topping lift to hoist anything on the foredeck is naturally and inevitably going to literally strip the topping lift off of it's sheave and forward, towards the mast and foredeck, promoting a solid jam. Doesn't matter what is up there to prevent that, the line is still being led in exactly the direction it was never intended to be used in.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

My advice to Scarlet is to get the lines to the length you want and properly whip the ends. It will be months before the charter company notices.

My favorite answer. Funny, rebellious, practical.