Why Such Long Lines?

[scarlet]

As I"m crewing on other boats, and also chartering, I'm amazed at how LONG the running rigging lines are. Our Lagoon 38 that we chartered in BVI had lines that were at least 2 to 3 times as long as were necessary to perform all maneuvers. The problem, for me, was that when you had to work with the lines, it was so much line to flake, wrap, stow, etc. Most cats and monos these days have all lines running to the helm. I'm obsessed with keeping my lines neat and orderly... but during some maneuvers, especially the ones that required working on multiple lines at the same time.. I had 100s of yards of line flaked out behind me.. (and not much room to do so safely. )

First off.. flaking line that is 3 times the amount you need is time consuming. Second, I found there was not enough room to flake multiple lines THAT LONG, without one line accidentally getting on top of another... Third, if you separate them enough when you flake to keep them from tangling up during maneuvers, you end up having to put one along the walkway.. one dragging into the cockpit maybe one back towards the sugar scoop. That is completely unsafe as the rope may slip off the back of the boat. And when you are releasing a line and it is running fast, and you are trying to control another line, often times I'd get flogged by a line, or worse, lines would get tangled around your legs... it was an absolutely mess. (and, btw.. isn't it a waste of money to have excessive line being exposed to the elements, but not being used as an active part of the line?!)

On my O'day, I keep enough line to fully raise, lower, trim out, trim in, etc. each sail... then allow another 5-10 yards of line extra, and call it a day. But I'm completely surprised that so many people have such an excess.

So, as an advanced beginner... am I missing something here?!

[flee27]

I have not noticed that as a problem on my boats or the boats I have sailed and chartered. Like you say enough plus a little extra is enough. I know sometime it seems like too much line on something like a halyard until you actually fully lower a sail. Personally 10 extra yards on a 22' boat seems excessive. 100's of yards extra is definitely excessive for a working line IMO.

[LoudMusic]

I've never noticed that.

But you did mention that concern of a flaked line going into the water. We actually did that intentionally with the spinnaker halyard on the racing boats I crewed on. It's out of the way and you can see if there is a tangle in it. And it allows the sail to drop immediately.

Of course you flake it on deck first then put it in the water when you are ready to drop the sail.

[Suijin]

I've never noticed that either. The lines on my boat are long enough for their function, plus another 6-10' give or take. I don't recall ever being on a boat with "overly long lines" other than cases where the line served double duty for another function.

I find it odd that, given the cost of quality rope, someone would make their lines gratuitously long. And as you mentioned, that is the safety factor which can escalate pretty quickly.

[mikedefieslife]

Try sailing a laser. The main sheet is crazily long and loves nothing better than getting trapped around your feet as you tack and jibe

[rbk]

Only thing I can think of on charters is being able to cut a length off in the event some credit card captain damages a line rather than replacing the whole thing??

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by rbk

Only thing I can think of on charters is being able to cut a length off in the event some credit card captain damages a line rather than replacing the whole thing??

I was just thinking that as well. Basically a "service loop" on their lines

[guyrj33]

I wonder if this is a case where the charter company charges the boat owner for the cost of the line and the easiest thing to do is make sure the line is LONG enough.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

But you did mention that concern of a flaked line going into the water. We actually did that intentionally with the spinnaker halyard on the racing boats I crewed on. It's out of the way and you can see if there is a tangle in it. And it allows the sail to drop immediately.

Of course you flake it on deck first then put it in the water when you are ready to drop the sail.

Why would you intentionally trail lines in the water during a race? Drag aside, if the line touches another boat or a buoy you could take a penalty. It does not sound like a winning strategy to me.

[jmschmidt]

My advice to Scarlet is to get the lines to the length you want and properly whip the ends. It will be months before the charter company notices.

Too long lines will eventually slip over the side and find themselves into a propeller.

[Mirage35]

Don't know - the halyards on my boat are roughly twice as long as they need to be, I was hoping someone here would offer a good reason.

[bensolomon]

There are a few reasons for this:. On a monohull, the extra length of line from the halyard runs to the dinghy so you can get the boat leaning should she be a ground as part of the kedging off procedure. Also, the main halyard can be used to hoist a crew overboard out of the water if there's enough length. Lastly, sometimes I use the main halyard to Hoist the dinghy on the foredeck when necessary.

[Bobel]

I too have found this to be a problem; especially with smaller boats and all running rigging directed to the cockpit. If you choose to shorten any lines I would confine it to the sheets, vang, etc. - not the halyard. Leave the main halyard long so that the line can be used for MOB recovery. Always make sure you leave enough line to run the full excursion of length needed and a little more to replace sun exposed or business end failure.

[dfelsent]

Two thoughts -
One - Boatyards replace a lot of halyards on roller furling jibs at the end of the season.
Wait for it!
Because the owners cut all that extra line that was in the way when the jib was up. No kidding.

Two - Halyards need to be long enough that the shackle end can reach the water at the stern for lifting

[Otia]

Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull

Don't know - the halyards on my boat are roughly twice as long as they need to be, I was hoping someone here would offer a good reason.

Yes you may need the halyards for hoisting; but twice as long as needed seems a lot...
On the sail head you get wear. I cut off a piece regularly. So you want that halyard extra length for that purpose.