Your best bridle recipe?

[smj]

Originally Posted by team karst

True. And an unloaded chain hook comes off in seconds.

Whether you want it to or not! But probably
The safest option with a chain rode in my opinion.

[rslifkin]

Lifespan of a bridle will depend on sizing. A thicker bridle that's made longer to get enough stretch will be less loaded (compared to its max load) and will last longer than a thin bridle that tries to get enough stretch at a shorter length.



Making a bridle thicker isn't really an issue, it just means it has to be longer to do the job.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by smj

We used one bridle for well over a thousand nights at anchor and no real sign of wear, though I’m sure most of the elastic stretch was pulled out of it.

Exactly. It is going to depend on storm exposure and how much elasticity you want to retain.



On way to gauge over-use is to measure permanent elongation (stretch that stays stretched). You need to mark and measure a section after a few weeks, and then watch for change. It's a complex topic, but 8% is a starting point for replacement.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Although I could offer many thoughts ...


Remember that a bridle, like dock boards, is a disposable wear item. It's not like designing chain plates, where you have one chance to get it right. Tie something up, live with it, and then decide later what works for your boat. I have used a different set-up on each boat I owned, and each one evolved after living with it to something more user friendly.



This is not something I would belabor right now. Just pick a middle of the road suggestion and move on. It will be replace after ~ 100-200 days at anchor anyway, depending on wear.

Yes, that's the plan. Just going to make up a couple extra 3/4" dock lines - plenty long and cleated to the bows when used.

I'll do the loop-Dee-Loo pseudo Prussik with double bitter end passes and good enough for now.

I was very impresses with the Prussik. Sat through a category 1 that had just been downgraded to TS as it hit us up in Buzzards Bay a couple summers back.

I was on a 50ft monohull with 60lbs Manson Supreme.

I tied up a snubber to take the shock load. I think it was 5/8".

I did the Prussik over the chain and it held like a champ as always.

I do like the simple Prussik solution because it allows you to just cut off chafed ends and continue using the same simple bridle. Much more self sufficient.

I shy away from Dyneema because I've had too many failures

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Yes, that's the plan. Just going to make up a couple extra 3/4" dock lines - plenty long and cleated to the bows when used.

I'll do the loop-Dee-Loo pseudo Prussik with double bitter end passes and good enough for now.

I was very impresses with the Prussik. Sat through a category 1 that had just been downgraded to TS as it hit us up in Buzzards Bay a couple summers back.

I was on a 50ft monohull with 60lbs Manson Supreme.

I tied up a snubber to take the shock load. I think it was 5/8".

I did the Prussik over the chain and it held like a champ as always.

I do like the simple Prussik solution because it allows you to just cut off chafed ends and continue using the same simple bridle. Much more self sufficient.

I shy away from Dyneema because I've had too many failures

No one ties a Prusik using the end of the rope. They use a pre-sewn climbing sling and attach it to the bridle with a shackle or a pair of carabiners (gates opposed). You can do it in seconds. There are various ways you scale this for strength, but a Dyneema sling is fine because anything will start to slip on rope at about 1500 pounds (in which case you can used tandem Prusiks with load equalization).



You could also use a soft shackle through a link, but then you might as well just put it through the chain.





Mantus version. https://youtu.be/Uo1bdNUfbNE

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

No one ties a Prusik using the end of the rope. They use a pre-sewn climbing sling and attach it to the bridle with a shackle or a pair of carabiners (gates opposed). You can do it in seconds. There are various ways you scale this for strength, but a Dyneema sling is fine because anything will start to slip on rope at about 1500 pounds (in which case you can used tandem Prusiks with load equalization).



You could also use a soft shackle through a link, but then you might as well just put it through the chain.





Mantus version. https://youtu.be/Uo1bdNUfbNE

No one?

I did. All summer. Worked great.


I don’t need any of those connectors because I’m just going to do the loop twice in the lines that make up my bridle. Just like you are showing in this pic but with no specialized equipment.

Totally self sustaining away from West Marine or whatever.

Simple is the best way on my boat. As in simple to fix or modify without outside help.

[rslifkin]

The spliced eye on a dock line does also work for a prusik, just not quite as conveniently (being that you have to pull the whole length of the line through the eye twice). However, if you just have the bitter end of a line, you can tie a rolling hitch, but you can't make a prusik (a prusik requires a closed loop to form it).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The spliced eye on a dock line does also work for a prusik, just not quite as conveniently (being that you have to pull the whole length of the line through the eye twice). However, if you just have the bitter end of a line, you can tie a rolling hitch, but you can't make a prusik (a prusik requires a closed loop to form it).

OK. Termanology issue. I guess it was some kind of crazy rolling hitch. I learned it from Mike on here. Worked fantastically all summer. Bitter end.

it was something like this. Like Blake's hitch.


https://www.animatedknots.com/blakes-hitch-knot

[wholybee]

I had a snubber break (might have been sabotaged) in Madagascar, and having lost most of the snubber and hook, used a rolling hitch for some months until I was able to buy another hook.

It is difficult to argue against a rolling hitch, especially after using it long enough to be able to set up the snubber with one quickly and in the dark.

[Tupaia]

Tried various methods over the years here is what we ended up with.

We have a loose bridle for the 50m of chain each leg is 13m (1.5xBOA) 3 strand that is spliced onto snubber hook, the boat ends are unspliced to allow for adjustment.
http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...ormat=original

For the 200m of rope we use 2 x 20mm dock lines with 2 rolling hitches about 30cm apart that stops any tendency to slide.

We launch our anchor through the trampoline from the edge of the apron so no hanging over the front beam.

Both the bridle and the dock lines are polyprop. because they float, very important for retrieval if you drop one. Also important, as you described, when one leg goes slack it cannot get looped under a bow. Secondly they stand up very well to UV (if treated) and salt. They get replaced every 3-5 years.

Always worry about using more high tech or braided lines is that the salt will cause abrasion and wear internally without any external indication and are expensive to replace on a regular basis.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

No one?

I did. All summer. Worked great.


I don’t need any of those connectors because I’m just going to do the loop twice in the lines that make up my bridle. Just like you are showing in this pic but with no specialized equipment.

Totally self sustaining away from West Marine or whatever.

Simple is the best way on my boat. As in simple to fix or modify without outside help.

Suit yourself. This is easier.



You could use a shackle (surely you have spares). You can splice the loop from some scrap of polyester or Dyneema. 10 minutes. The biners are wire gate climbing carabiners, about $8 anywhere, if you go that way. Many options. I know that the first time I used this system I was in the middle of no where on a delivery trip and put it together from stuff in the tool kit. Self sufficient is good.



But pulling the whole rope through is too much like work and would take longer to remove if you had to leave in a hurry, short of using a knife.


You are one of very few that would pull the rope through.

[Chotu]

looks like I can’t use my 3/4" line for this if I go Prussik / rolling hitch.

Apparently, it's important the tied on line is smaller than the line it's tied to.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

OK. Termanology issue. I guess it was some kind of crazy rolling hitch. I learned it from Mike on here. Worked fantastically all summer. Bitter end.

it was something like this. Like Blake's hitch.


https://www.animatedknots.com/blakes-hitch-knot

That's not just terminology, that just way off! Yup, we all know the rolling hitch.



A rolling hitch is known to slip on chain at high load. For security, either tie two or use a camel hitch. Several well-known cruisers have reported this. (this may be behind a pay wall)

https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...p-anchor-chain


Curiously a rolling hitch is secure on rope, just not chain. It's something about how the links shift.


(this table is out of context without the whole article)

[Chotu]

I think this is it! From the article.


I am pretty sure it was the icicle hitch I was using and very happy with that held a 50ft mono through the near hurricane.


https://www.animatedknots.com/icicle...not-end-method


It's just not easy to remember all this minutae when building a boat and running a business at the same time whe scrambling to get everything ready for a rigger and having to leave in a week.

This is all fast stuff. Perfectionism and good memory are not happening at this time for me.

So can I tie these on bitter ends and cleat the other end?

Good enough to get me to the rigger.

Does it have to be a smaller diameter line? I’m guessing yes. And does it bind to 3 strand nylon as well as chain? Because it binds to chain like crazy.

[rslifkin]

Yes, you could just tie 2 snubbers on with icicle hitches to make a bridle.