5 hp Outboard on 30’ sloop (8600 lbs) vs 30 hp Atomic 4 on ICW

[ForeverDes]

My 26' , 6600# sailboat has a 1960 Atomic 4 in it, and it doesn't smell of gas or leak oil.

I also have a 6 hp Tohatsu outboard mounted on a lifting bracket as a kicker/emergency motor, but it doubles as propulsion for my 12' foldabote.
I occasionally use the outboard to push the big boat, and by far the Atomic 4 is easier to start, shift, control throttle, and steer the boat. It pushes the boat faster, and it's quieter in the cockpit than the Tohatsu. For comparison, I get ~6 knots at 1800 rpm with the Atomic 4, and ~5.2 knots WOT with the Tohatsu.

The best thing about the Tohatsu is the greater maneuverability in reverse.

[Rumrace]

STop it nothing wrong with Atomic. Great little 4 banger. Hundreds of boats got them and every single power boater in the clubs loved them cause they didn’t have to breath in some sailor firing up his 2 stroke diesel. Was like sailors had no clue how much they were the true stink pot.
If diesels had no improved greatly I’d prefer a gas engine.

I had an 88 M3 4 pot in a 1982 RAlly car. Was so much fun until it broke. The engine still is great could likely put your boat on plane with 210 horses

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

STop it nothing wrong with Atomic. Great little 4 banger. Hundreds of boats got them and every single power boater in the clubs loved them cause they didn’t have to breath in some sailor firing up his 2 stroke diesel. Was like sailors had no clue how much they were the true stink pot.
If diesels had no improved greatly I’d prefer a gas engine.

I had an 88 M3 4 pot in a 1982 RAlly car. Was so much fun until it broke. The engine still is great could likely put your boat on plane with 210 horses

Yeah they're great or were.

I had a 4 "banger" in a 1971 Pinto. The English Engine 1600 CC 54 horse power and it could push the car to 84 mph on a good day.

Fine engine for the late 60's early 70's. I had it is 1972/73.

Would I want it today?

No way.

It's outboard all the way. Plenty of spare parts at reasonable prices also.

Go check the prices for new A4 parts these days............they are crazy expensive.

https://moyermarine.com/product/sea-...csob_00-1_501/

Water pump: $300

Impeller $40

etc, etc

[thomm225]

Able 32 displacement over 11,000 lbs.

Outboard well and 9.8 Tohatsu Outboard installed.

Got rid of heavy 15 hp Honda Outboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ibTleP5clg

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Repair?! Are you kidding.

That would be like taking your 1970's car in and saying the engine leaks and smells please fix it for me this afternoon!

Those engines are ancient leaky and smelly plus they not only leak gas and oil but do so inside the boat.

This is why when James Baldwin does a refit on a Good Old Full Keel Cruising Boat he always goes the outboard route in boats up to 32'

9,000 lb Alberg 30 here: (Tohatsu 6 HP 4 stroke Sail Pro Outboard; removed A4)

With due respect, I find it difficult to believe that the pictured o/b would stay in the water in any conditions where the boat was pitching very much... and those designs do tend to hobby horse now and then.

O/b motors mounted in a well have a better chance of success than those hung at the stern, but none will do as well as an inboard swinging a much larger prop.

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

With due respect, I find it difficult to believe that the pictured o/b would stay in the water in any conditions where the boat was pitching very much... and those designs do tend to hobby horse now and then.

O/b motors mounted in a well have a better chance of success than those hung at the stern, but none will do as well as an inboard swinging a much larger prop.

Jim

So if you have experience with an outboard on your sailboat it will work fine.

It helps though if you have sailed 10-15 years without any motor at all like I have.

Plus the 11 years with the outboard.

Most times but not all when there is pitching there is wind so you can use your sails to assist the outboard.

But I don't expect most cruisers would know how to do this as they relay on their engines a lot.

Even when they come down the bay on a beautiful day they will motor rather than raise sail and deal with the head wind.

Maybe they are in a hurry or something.

Some here speak of wanting to be first at the anchorage. Maybe that's it.

As far as the well, I'm not cutting a hole in my boat for the engine. I plan one day to leave my slip totally loaded then place my outboard on the dinghy engine mount on my stern railing and sail for a few weeks engineless. (but still have my outboard and 3-4 gallons of gas stored onboard. The gas will be in sealed plastic jugs)

Mounting plate PO installed maybe 20 years ago still there. i use it when I service the outboard.

It's pretty easy to move your engine around when is weighs 58-59 lbs

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So if you have experience with an outboard on your sailboat it will work fine.

It helps though if you have sailed 10-15 years without any motor at all like I have.

Plus the 11 years with the outboard.

Most times but not all when there is pitching there is wind so you can use your sails to assist the outboard.

But I don't expect most cruisers would know how to do this as they relay on their engines a lot.

Even when they come down the bay on a beautiful day they will motor rather than raise sail and deal with the head wind.

Maybe they are in a hurry or something.

Some here speak of wanting to be first at the anchorage. Maybe that's it.

As far as the well, I'm not cutting a hole in my boat for the engine. I plan one day to leave my slip totally loaded then place my outboard on the dinghy engine mount on my stern railing and sail for a few weeks engineless. (but still have my outboard and 3-4 gallons of gas stored onboard. The gas will be in sealed plastic jugs)

Mounting plate PO installed maybe 20 years ago still there. i use it when I service the outboard.

It's pretty easy to move your engine around when is weighs 58-59 lbs

Thomm, we all know that you are a hero driver with vast experience, but in this case I was commenting on the design that you pictured, not about you or your boat or your sailing history. That boat had a long overhang aft with a transom high above the WL, a short LWL and lots of rocker in the hull shape. Those design features often lead to a propensity to pitch, and any significant pitching will get the o/b prop near to or out of the surface of the water, resulting in a loss of thrust. I think this is a damning consideration for an auxiliary motor on a cruising yacht.

Your lengthy experience on the Chessie may lead you to a different conclusion; my lengthy experience on the oceans of the world support my opinion.

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Thomm, we all know that you are a hero driver with vast experience, but in this case I was commenting on the design that you pictured, not about you or your boat or your sailing history. That boat had a long overhang aft with a transom high above the WL, a short LWL and lots of rocker in the hull shape. Those design features often lead to a propensity to pitch, and any significant pitching will get the o/b prop near to or out of the surface of the water, resulting in a loss of thrust. I think this is a damning consideration for an auxiliary motor on a cruising yacht.

Your lengthy experience on the Chessie may lead you to a different conclusion; my lengthy experience on the oceans of the world support my opinion.

Jim

One of the worst situations I was in as far as making headway with an engine was when I still had the diesel in my boat.

The boat was boucing around (hobby horsing) so much all I could make was 1-2 knots.

The creek was very narrow and shallow so I had no choice.

Once I get room the outboard comes out of the water and I sail.

Like I said many have circumnavigated without an engine including the guy above that refitted the Able 32 with an Outboard.

Come to think of it he also replaced the Atomic 4 gasoline engine in his Pearson Triton 28 "Atom" with an old outboard ....also mounted on a bracket on the stern.

That boat now has a 6 hp Tohatsu SailPro as well.... in the well

https://atomvoyages.com/atom-html/

Interior:

1. Removed Atomic 4 inboard engine and its accessories.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

One of the worst situations I was in as far as making headway with an engine was when I still had the diesel in my boat.

The boat was boucing around (hobby horsing) so much all I could make was 1-2 knots.

The creek was very narrow and shallow so I had no choice.

Once I get room the outboard comes out of the water and I sail.

Like I said many have circumnavigated without an engine including the guy above that refitted the Able 32 with an Outboard.

Come to think of it he also replaced the Atomic 4 gasoline engine in his Pearson Triton 28 "Atom" with an old outboard ....also mounted on a bracket on the stern.

That boat now has a 6 hp Tohatsu SailPro as well.... in the well

https://atomvoyages.com/atom-html/

Interior:

1. Removed Atomic 4 inboard engine and its accessories.

There's a difference in thought process here. You're looking at it from the "engine only needs to be usable when I absolutely cannot sail at all" perspective. Rather than the "engine should be usable in the widest range of conditions possible in case I have a reason to use it" perspective.



As far as your only making 1 - 2 kts with the diesel while hobby horsing, some boats just don't power into chop well with any engine, and plenty of sailboats (particularly older ones) just have sub-optimal engine installations (as far as power, gearing, prop selection, etc.). But plenty are much better than that and can push the boat along more effectively.



Personally, I'd never rip out a working inboard for an outboard on a sailboat. In my mind, outboards on sailboats are for cases where you can't reasonably power it any other way.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

....
This is why when James Baldwin does a refit on a Good Old Full Keel Cruising Boat he always goes the outboard route in boats up to 32'.
...

No he doesn't, in at least one case he has replaced the inboard with an electric drive and also installed the outboard well.

More to the point his inboard well system only works with vessels where the designed location of the rudder is far enough forward to allow installation of the well.

Finally, James Baldwin while very talented and innovative is not the final word on engine installation, nobody is.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

There's a difference in thought process here. You're looking at it from the "engine only needs to be usable when I absolutely cannot sail at all" perspective. Rather than the "engine should be usable in the widest range of conditions possible in case I have a reason to use it" perspective.



As far as your only making 1 - 2 kts with the diesel while hobby horsing, some boats just don't power into chop well with any engine, and plenty of sailboats (particularly older ones) just have sub-optimal engine installations (as far as power, gearing, prop selection, etc.). But plenty are much better than that and can push the boat along more effectively.



Personally, I'd never rip out a working inboard for an outboard on a sailboat. In my mind, outboards on sailboats are for cases where you can't reasonably power it any other way.

Yep.

The engine (outboard) is a total luxury for me after 15 years sailing/racing engineless.

At first, I rarely used it except to back out of my slip and get into the creek then I'd go to sails immediately.

After drifting though once out into the bay for an hour or two, I finally started using the outboard....... and many times since have motored or motor sailed the 20 miles crossing the lower bay to get home on Sunday Mornings.

It's so calm in the video below where I'm about 10 miles offshore I only have the motor down one notch on the adjustable bracket.

This back in 2012 or so.

There are a lot of things about my present boat that are nice to have as compared to my other 4 sailboats.

There are many times I wish I had a small engine though especially during a 100 mile racing at 1 am after having started the race at 7 am the day before........ with all supplies gone except for a couple bottles of water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZhq35etcw

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

No he doesn't, in at least one case he has replaced the inboard with an electric drive and also installed the outboard well.

More to the point his inboard well system only works with vessels where the designed location of the rudder is far enough forward to allow installation of the well.

Finally, James Baldwin while very talented and innovative is not the final word on engine installation, nobody is.

Right which is why my outboard mounted on the stern of my boat works great.......