A call out to Beta 50 owners, newer engines in particular.

[mlydon]

Read through the whole thread - while you state same boat, etc..... I’m thinking different cooling water flow rates, higher amperage alternator, and is the bonding different (any bonding no longer connected, etc.
Matt

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Read through the whole thread - while you state same boat, etc..... I’m thinking different cooling water flow rates, higher amperage alternator, and is the bonding different (any bonding no longer connected, etc.
Matt

All good points questions, but in summary:

Cooling flow rate is determined by the manufacturer (provided of course the engine was installed correctly). Observationally, the water flow out the back looks pretty much the same as the last engine.

The alternator is about the same power output as the last one. (I say power, because it is half the voltage but double the current, the last engine was 24 volts). But given the engine is electrically isolated from the boat house bank, I can’t see much potential for trouble there. If anything, less potential, given the lower voltages.

As for bonding, as noted in the initial post, this has all remained the same as the last engine. In each case, the engine is/was electrically isolated from the prop shaft through the use of a polyflex coupling. They actually sell an adapter wire/ribbon for those who need an electrical connection when using one of these couplings, but I don’t use one. I have separate galvanic protection for the prop shaft.

[mark maulden]

I’m also part of the FB group. If you suspect the tube, then just remove it and replace with a hose. Monitor over time and report back..

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mark maulden

I’m also part of the FB group. If you suspect the tube, then just remove it and replace with a hose. Monitor over time and report back..

Yes, that’s what I intend to do, however, with a proper baseline for comparison, the findings would be meaningless.

Just ripping out the pipe now is not the smart approach.

[FPNC]

Originally Posted by GILow

proper baseline for comparison

You can base line the engines.

The Beta 43, 50 and 60 use the same series block from Kubota. The bore and stroke are the difference.

The Beta 43, 50 and 60 use identical standard cooling system components.

The Beta 43, 50 and 60 engines use identical standard electrical components.

To imagine a standard Beta 50 would use zincs faster than the other engines does make sense.

You cannot base line the multitude of vessels and installations and environments for which these three engine designs are used. Those variables are endless.

[richardhc]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Yes too right it should be up to the manufacturer to make sure the HX is fit for purpose & replace at their expense if it isnt.
I'd be urinating blood if I had to replace the HX on a new engine still under warranty. What does Beta say about it? Hope they are paying for the replacement pipe & install but I somehow doubt it.
Good luck that the syn pipe cures it appetite for anodes.

I started the thread on the galvanic corrosion of the Beta 50 on the Facebook Beta Users group.

In installed the Beta 50 as a replacement for a Cummins engine that had worked for 35 years with no anode at all in the system and no problems at all with galvanic corrosion (I replaced it because parts were no longer available).

I saw a few comments on Facebook about anodes vanishing quickly on Beta engines so, after only 3 months of use I checked mine and it was completely gone. It could have been gone long before I bothered to check it (the Beta Owners Manual suggest checking it yearly).

I discovered the 1.4m long 20mm raw water pipe was made of stainless steel, found it had a good electrical connection to the engine ground, and replaced it with a silicone high temp 1" hose.

Three months, and the same number of engine hours, later I checked the anode and it was only about 20% gone. I didn't change anything else in the system. This is a pretty clear indication that the dissimilar metals were causing the issue.

I emailed the CEO of Beta with a detailed report and he passed the email to his chief engineer. Mr. Talbot replied, "Agreed we could make the sea water pipes out of rubber, but we have found that long runs of rubber pipe need to be well supported along the route so as not to touch and wear away causing leaks, a solid pipe is by far the best solution."

I sent him (and the CEO) photos (also posted on the Facebook group) showing my silicone hose installation which has - like the stainless pipe - one support and no possibility of chafing. I also noted in an email to Beta that England's top heat commercial heat exchanger manufacturer EJ*Bowman*(Birmingham)*Ltd*does not have zinc anodes in their heat exchangers (like Cummins) and sent them a quote by one of Bowman's engineers saying why their heat exchangers don't use anodes and why a correctly made system does not need them.

I also noted in my emails to the Beta CEO and chief engineer that in addition to the stainless steel pipe the raw water circuit also passed though a stainless steel cover and shaft on the raw water pump with a cast bronze housing, two end caps made of some bronze alloy, and the heat exchanger tube stack made from a combination of Naval brass and 90/10 Cu Ni.

I also explained my motivation for writing to them was because their engine was otherwise excellent and if they used only one metal alloy in the raw water circuit their product would be much better than the competing French Nanni marinization of the Kuboto engine.

Hey, and guess what! Mr. Talbot stopped answering my emails.

So it's up to Beta owners to remove the dissimilar metals as best they can and keep changing the zincs. Fortunately replacing the stainless pipe is quick and easy and that made a huge difference.

The stainless plate on the raw water pump could be solved by making a new one out of bronze - if you could figure out what bronze alloy the case is made from. I asked Beta parts if they would please get the pump manufacturer to make bronze cover plates and said I would be happy to buy two immediately. The reply from parts was... no, the request would need to come from the CEO or Engineering dept.

Also the Chief Engineer, Mr. Talbot, would not (could not?) answer the question of what alloy the heat exchanger end caps were made of. So we are stuck with 4, possibly 5 dissimilar alloys in the system and a company that is apparently more interested in selling lots of zinc anodes than fixing their engineering goofs.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by FPNC

You can base line the engines.



The Beta 43, 50 and 60 use the same series block from Kubota. The bore and stroke are the difference.



The Beta 43, 50 and 60 use identical standard cooling system components.



The Beta 43, 50 and 60 engines use identical standard electrical components.



To imagine a standard Beta 50 would use zincs faster than the other engines does make sense.



You cannot base line the multitude of vessels and installations and environments for which these three engine designs are used. Those variables are endless.

I was not talking about baselineing OTHER engines or systems, I was talking about my specific engine and system. I think that is pretty clear.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by richardhc

I started the thread on the galvanic corrosion of the Beta 50 on the Facebook Beta Users group.
.....

Hi Richard, thank you for joining in here and thank you particularly for sharing your experience in the hope that others would be saved from what could have been serious problems.

Given how my anode was looking, I would have been in real danger of damage if I’d waited for the recommended 50 hours.

As you know, I’ve replaced the original anode, I am now waiting for it to do the same amount of time (not engine hours) to see how it looks. Engine hours will be harder, for various reasons the engine was used a lot more during the first month and half from installation than it is likely to be used again. So, for instance, it has only done an additional 4 hours in the last six weeks. It did 17 in the first six weeks.

Anyway, I thought I was removing it yesterday, but a careful check of the records say I’ve got another three days to go. I will report back then.

After that, I will do as you have suggested and swap out the raw water pipe.

[stormalong]

Very late to the discussion here - been out for a week's cruise. I have a Beta 50, installed in 2003. My Beta had copper, or perhaps cupro-nickel piping but also an aluminum heat exchanger on my Hurth/ZF marine transmission. After six or seven years the aluminum heat exchanger had corroded bad enough to require replacement. At the same time the pipe leading up to it had some corrosion. So I chose to replace all of the copper piping with hose. I had some custom brackets made to hold the hoses in pace and have not had a problem with chafe. Also the replacement aluminum heat exchanger is going strong after about ten years - just checked on it last winter.

I take the end cap off of the HX every time I change the zinc. There is always a piece of the zinc laying in the end cap and a buildup of zinc on the inside of the end cap. I clean it up and put it back together. There is no sign of deterioration of the end cap or the tube stack.

Not specifically related to this discussion. About three years ago I removed the tube stack and soaked it in vinegar to clean it out. A lot of crud came out. I did the same thing with the tube stack on my Perkins 4-108 when it was about the same age. This improved the cooling on both engines. The 4-108 had no zinc in the raw water stream.

[GILow]

Thanks stormalong, a very helpful addition.

The tip about bits of anode being left behind is particularly useful. [emoji106]

[Les Noble]

I have a Beta 38 installed in 2018 and has 160 hours on it. On the hard for a paint job, checked systems and zinc is gone. I have an 42' Aluminum sailboat with isolated ground harness from Beta. Also upsized alternator to 120 amps with engine. I have less than a volt leak between block and ground and a little more when running to chase down. Had a little pitting on the zinc from the saildrive as well. I have a stainless pump cover and pipe running to engine.
A wooden sailboat on the hard nearby has a year old Beta 30 (I think), and zinc was 50% gone and impeller already had broken fins sucked in engine. Checked mine and had two tears started.
Side note: purchased engine and spares kit from Sound Marine Diesel which had wrong zincs. He swapped them out for standard sized ones to make a buck. Wooden boat guy also had fake zincs although I don't know who he bought from.

[Les Noble]

Correction: I have a leak between block and hull.

[GILow]

Thanks Les Noble, but a bit hard to compare. An engine with 160 hours would surely have had many anode replacements by now?

[Les Noble]

Correction 2: engine has 62 hours. It was late at night and I have to get on my knees to read it. For what its worth. Project #168 is to move that panel higher.

[GILow]

Ah right. Yes, well 62 hours is a bit of a worry, but in fairness it is outside the recommended 50 hour inspection.

It would be good to hear back from you on the next anode. It sounds like there’s a lot going on with the boat, some of which may affect anode life, but anyway, can I suggest a maximum of 20 hours before the next inspection, might be prudent. [emoji846]