Adding Used Motor Oil to Diesel Fuel?

[a64pilot]

Just from a quick reading it seems that California has labeled used oil as hazardous waste, which it likely is. But doing so apparently brings a whole lot of paperwork and book keeping and I’m sure now to transport it you have to be certified to transport hazardous waste, and maybe the truck does too.
It’s possible to make something so difficult to accomplish, that accomplishing it loses its appeal if your a business trying to make a buck and pay your employees etc.

My marina in Panama City had the oil recycle point locked up, you had to go get the key, I believe it was for Marina customers only, and fill out a form stating how much of what you were dumping.

Contrast that with St. Augustine, that has a huge disposal tank. That seems to be open to anyone who wants to use it, just pour your oil in.

Which one do you think prevents oil dumping better?

Used oil recycling works, the reason it works is it’s a commodity that has a value, people who collect it and recycle it make a little money doing so.
Make it hard for them to do and remove the profit incentive will result in less oil recycled, and mandating it won’t help much either.

Halon recycling and older refrigerant recycling is very effective, the reason it is, is there is good profit to be made recycling it. People go out of their way to get every drop, because it has value.

[acem]

Its good to burn your used oil in your boat if you can't recycle it and is ok even if you can. However, I would not get used oil for fuel. Used hydraulic oil (ATF is a hydraulic fluid) is commonly burned in diesel engines as well.

Standard oil filters are designed to filter all the oil flow and therefore do not filter out fine particles. Some engines use a bypass filter to 'polish' the oil, keeping it much cleaner. Your fuel filters should remove much finer particles than a std oil filter.

Thx-Ace

[Cadence]

Re: asphalt. The comment was made about the oil being used to heat the asphalt thus being the same environmental problem. As I recall asphalt is composed of tar which is the bottom of the fracking prosses. it would seem used oil could be added to the tar and pave roads limiting the environmental effect to leaching out?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Re: asphalt. The comment was made about the oil being used to heat the asphalt thus being the same environmental problem. As I recall asphalt is composed of tar which is the bottom of the fracking prosses. it would seem used oil could be added to the tar and pave roads limiting the environmental effect to leaching out?

I think I was one that commented on the asphalt, and it’s my understanding that it is an ingredient in the manufacture, not that it’s burnt as fuel to heat it.

I don’t think motor oil burns very well, it burns, but poorly when compared to say Diesel.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.....

But apparently some oil is indeed recycled into lubrication uses... just not likely in Tassie!

Jim

I'm sure you are correct on both accounts!

Nothing much leaves Tasmania due to freight costs. The waste oil collection service here in Tasmania don't pay for the waste product, they get paid to take it away and they get paid again by re-selling it to anyone who will pay for it close by.

As for the EPA, well we had to sort oil waste products (cans, rags etc) from other waste products in the hangar. The airport management would audit the process regularly. We had to have clearly marked separate bins and had to have seperate contacts to have the different waste products collected.

The waste pickup service would turn up and put ALL waste into the same truck. When we highlighted the inconsistency, the answer by the airport management was 'we don't control what happens to the waste after collection - not our problem; and by the way, no one else is interested providing you seperate it before collection" Go figure!

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think I was one that commented on the asphalt, and it’s my understanding that it is an ingredient in the manufacture, not that it’s burnt as fuel to heat it.

I don’t think motor oil burns very well, it burns, but poorly when compared to say Diesel.

And aviation turbine and transmission oils are very hard to get burning - I guess they have fire retardants in them as a matter of course. ????

Still the waste oil guys didn't care, they got paid for any oil they picked up!

[thinwater]

I've built and operated used oil recycling plants, so let me clarify a few things.

1. Used oil can be used to provide heat for making asphalt paving material. This used to be the outlet for >90% of used oil. It was NOT an ingredient. It became less popular when the price of natural gas fell. More than 1/2 is now rerefined. This is more market shift than regulation.

2. Used oil burning in an asphalt plant was not banned by the EPA because 3rd party testing with EPA involvement demonstrated that air pollution control equipment (already required to catch dust and asphalt fume, no matter the fuel source) captured better than 95% of the emissions, making it cleaner than coal or heavy oils. This is much cleaner than oil space heaters or diesel engines.

3. Bottoms from rerefining used oil are blended into asphalt, more for roofing materials than paving. There have been on-going questions regarding negative effects on the paving materials and there is a glut on the market. Some is is used as low-value blast furnace fuel as a way of disposing of it. It is the elephant in the room.

4. Used oil contains slightly more BTUs than diesel. About 141,000 BTU/gallon.


5. Not all lube oils are petroleum based. If you really want to ruin an engine, try silicone oil (the combustion product is SiO2). I watched a fleet of stationary engines shut down when fed high silicone oil by accident.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I've built and operated used oil recycling plants, so let me clarify a few things.

1. Used oil can be used to provide heat for making asphalt paving material. This used to be the outlet for >90% of used oil. It was NOT an ingredient. It became less popular when the price of natural gas fell. More than 1/2 is now rerefined. This is more market shift than regulation.

2. Used oil burning in an asphalt plant was not banned by the EPA because 3rd party testing with EPA involvement demonstrated that air pollution control equipment (already required to catch dust and asphalt fume, no matter the fuel source) captured better than 95% of the emissions, making it cleaner than coal or heavy oils. This is much cleaner than oil space heaters or diesel engines.

3. Bottoms from rerefining used oil are blended into asphalt, more for roofing materials than paving. There have been on-going questions regarding negative effects on the paving materials and there is a glut on the market. Some is is used as low-value blast furnace fuel as a way of disposing of it. It is the elephant in the room.

4. Used oil contains slightly more BTUs than diesel. About 141,000 BTU/gallon.


5. Not all lube oils are petroleum based. If you really want to ruin an engine, try silicone oil (the combustion product is SiO2). I watched a fleet of stationary engines shut down when fed high silicone oil by accident.

TY, for some informed information.

[OneHullPaul]

Oh, it burns great in appropriate equipment, including a diesel pot burner like a Dickinson.

https://www.cleanburn.com/

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by OneHullPaul

Oh, it burns great in appropriate equipment, including a diesel pot burner like a Dickinson.

https://www.cleanburn.com/

I've seen it used in a salamander, basically a big pot, 4' dia., with a chimney to heat the shop of the lighterage and towing co. it put out a lot of heat. I feel sure it would not pass EPA inspection. I believe getting going require some diesel.

[OneHullPaul]

Yes, start and stop on diesel. Add a waste oil tank and a three way valve, then turn it when diesel is vaporizing and the waste oil will too. In that environment you are meeting EPA regulations.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by CapnCrunch

I have found casual mentions of the practice but can's seem to find a full thread on it. I gather that it not a recommended practice for newer engines but I haven't seen any negative comments about doing it with older diesels.

I also gather (again only casual mentions) that the used oil should be kept to around 1% of the fuel volume.

Does it cause operation problems?

Does it adversely affect fuel economy?

Is it illegal anywhere?

I would rather have posted this to the Trawler Forum because Trawlers tend to have larger tankage, but I cannot get their system to log me in so I thought I'd go ahead and ask y'all.

Seen this done by a lumber mill operator in the bush but the oil was filtered, Home made filter, a hole bored into 5 gallon drum with a holded tube running up through the centre with toilet paper rolls with the cardboard centre cut out, the black sump oil slowly came out honey coloured oil again, it was like magic I was in awe. Can not remember the ratio mix to diesel. He also was doing oil changes with it. The viscosity must of been lower though. 6- 356 perkins and run hard all day driving 6 foot blades. This bloke was in his seventies and bare footed.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by SarahBeth

Frankly, I find this attitude both short sighted and offensive. As sailors, we know better, and first hand, how degradation of the oceans is impacting life on earth. WE are (or should be) its first stewards. That means we need to pay attention to the impacts of our actions on the health of the seas. The Environmental Protection Agency studies these impacts and makes its pronouncements accordingly. So not caring about these regulations - which are based on a desire and duty to PROTECT the oceans - is self-defeating. If you don’t care about it for yourself, how about thinking about your children - or the occupants of low-lying kingdoms and countries in Polynesia and elsewhere who are dealing with the impacts of selfish actions now.

I can understand your concerns, however recreational boats are a small small small fraction of the pollution your trying to guilt us about. Perhaps you could get the attention of loonies like DiCaprio to park their mega yachts and private jets instead. Then contact Maersk shipping and others about the grade of their oil burned in their supertankers. Don’t even talk to me about the crooked epa.
Now go have your morning helping of glyphosate breakfast and roundup breakfast drink.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by thruska

I can understand your concerns, however recreational boats are a small small small fraction of the pollution your trying to guilt us about. Perhaps you could get the attention of loonies like DiCaprio to park their mega yachts and private jets instead. Then contact Maersk shipping and others about the grade of their oil burned in their supertankers. Don’t even talk to me about the crooked epa.

Now go have your morning helping of glyphosate breakfast and roundup breakfast drink.

To a large extent it’s a matter of numbers, yes the Super Yachts and Private Jets are polluters, but they are massively outnumbered by us little guys, so we can make a difference.
Not saying that the others can to, just don’t underestimate the difference a grass roots campaign can make.

If somehow we made it Socially more acceptable to be more efficient In our use of energy, I really think that in time that consumption of energy by private individuals could easily be cut in half.
IF and this is the big if, but if people had the desire to.

[GrowleyMonster]

It won't really save you any money in the long run. Mostly you will see shorter fuel filter life. Possibly deposits in turbochargers and maybe cylinder walls, valves, etc though this is unlikely with low percentages in the fuel. All in all, it is likely to actually cost you money. A little, anyway. However, it is a convenient and relatively safe way to dispose of used oil if you find yourself with no better alternative. Most marinas have a waste oil disposal drum or tank, but not all. Some garages or full service gas stations will take your used oil. In the US, all NAPA parts stores and most Auto Zones will take your used oil. I would be surprised if they do not sell it for a nice profit, so they shouldn't be troubled by receiving several gallons instead of the usual 5 quarts or so.


That still leaves your old oil filters. They should not be simply buried in the local landfill, so bagging and tossing in the dumpster is maybe a bit irresponsible. No Idea what recyclers do with them... probably incinerate them. Anyway, if you can store them aboard until you are able to dispose of them properly, that is definitely a good thing. If you take your oil to a recycler or a business that recycles, ask about your filters, too.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

To a large extent it’s a matter of numbers, yes the Super Yachts and Private Jets are polluters, but they are massively outnumbered by us little guys, so we can make a difference.
Not saying that the others can to, just don’t underestimate the difference a grass roots campaign can make.

If somehow we made it Socially more acceptable to be more efficient In our use of energy, I really think that in time that consumption of energy by private individuals could easily be cut in half.
IF and this is the big if, but if people had the desire to.

I respect your opinion 64pilot.
Plesse tell me where that info is published. Yes the numbers ... i fall to understand how a super yacht usage of what 10-20 times our little boats makes those numbers plausible in your defense of them .
Now if you try to defend the use of low cost crude in big ships I’d be inclined to say , well hey thats a good place for the waste oil of all kinds including fast food frying oil..
Incidentally, if countries were even at all seriously interested in recycling, we would be seeing retu for deposit containers made mandatory.
In 80-90s recycling glass had 3cent a pound recycling value. Could make money on it as opposed to paying landfill fees. Then mandatory recycling put little guys out of business.