Atomic 4 Gasoline engine

[sailortype]

and most of the comments about the engines are exaggerated and knee jerk.
But I would likely agree about the gas tank in the cockpit.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailortype

. . . These engines were installed in 40,000 boats... how many blew up? they are still operating in an estimated 20,000 boats.. .

Ummm, let's see, 40,000 minus 20,00 equals -- 20,000?

[sailortype]

like... really??

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fdr14127

Interesting the number of skippers who knock the Atomic 4 for being a gasoline engine and therefore unsafe, but have propane fitted for the galley. If I had to wager, I would think there are more propane explosions than Atomic 4's that have exploded.....

I completely agree with you. But is that any comfort? More people were killed on boats in propane explosions last year in the UK, than drowned by falling overboard.

That's kind of like saying cancer is no big deal, because more people die of heart attacks.

[sailortype]

yes , that is somewhat irrelevant.
But if you will understand the point... after 50 years and 40,000 engines, there is no evidence of boats with gas engines blowing up, even with so many bad practices and poor maintenance. It is not a reason to not buy a boat. Read the above 200 posts

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by sailortype

...there is no evidence of boats with gas engines blowing up...

Come on!

[AKA-None]

My a4 starts right up after running the blower for a bit. Easy to work on with simple hand tools small list of spares to keep on hand. Diesels don't like to run for 5 minutes at a time.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I completely agree with you. But is that any comfort? More people were killed on boats in propane explosions last year in the UK, than drowned by falling overboard.

That's kind of like saying cancer is no big deal, because more people die of heart attacks.

BoatUS has not a single propane explosion claim on a boat, but hundreds of gasoline explosions. Google it yourself.

PS. I am not one who said these are ticking time bombs which I believe is ridiculous comment, however no more ridiculous than yours.
Now British boats built to the very lackluster CE propane standards are another issue and I have no problem believing some of them do blow up.

It took me 30 seconds to find this one "Gasoline Fumes Are The Major Cause of Boat Explosions" From the BOatUS magazine.

[sailortype]

yes, we are all going to die soon.
Becoming a waste of time.
Good luck

[Jim Cate]

BoatUS has not a single propane explosion claim on a boat, but hundreds of gasoline explosions. Google it yourself.

I wonder how many of those gasoline explosions were in sailboats with A-4 engines, and how many were smallish motor vessels? Or larger ones for that matter...

My biased observation is that sailors generally pay more attention to things like blower operation than weekend fishermen or family outing folks.

Jim

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder how many of those gasoline explosions were in sailboats with A-4 engines, and how many were smallish motor vessels? Or larger ones for that matter...

My biased observation is that sailors generally pay more attention to things like blower operation than weekend fishermen or family outing folks.

Jim

I've surveyed hundreds of sailboats with A4's .... never seen one safely installed. Everything from engine compartments with grills at the companionway venting into accomodation spaces, the back side of AC outlets exposed to the engine compartment (many with solid copper wiring). automotive non-ignition protected battery chargers, automotive carburetors, un-grounded fuel fill fittings, un-grounded fuel tanks, Battery chargers mounted directly over batteries, fuel fill hose resting on exhaust manifolds, cracked copper fuel lines, the list goes on and on.
I repeat .... hundreds of surveys with A4's, still have not seen a single safe installation.

[hobopacket]

Ok. Think I will quit boating now, just to damn dangerous.

Anybody interested in a nicely equipped wellcraft with a, guess what, gas inboard?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

BoatUS has not a single propane explosion claim on a boat, but hundreds of gasoline explosions. Google it yourself.

PS. I am not one who said these are ticking time bombs which I believe is ridiculous comment, however no more ridiculous than yours.
Now British boats built to the very lackluster CE propane standards are another issue and I have no problem believing some of them do blow up.

It took me 30 seconds to find this one "Gasoline Fumes Are The Major Cause of Boat Explosions" From the BOatUS magazine.

I do believe that gasoline explosions are more common than propane, and the Boat US article you cite is on point.

However, I do not believe that Boat US has no propane explosion claims, and I find nothing which says that except naked assertions on forums. Nothing from Boat US itself which says that. A quick google turns up dozens of propane explosions on boats in the U.S. One horrific one just last month. Insured by Boat US or not, I don't know, but propane explosions are very common.

Man burned during propane explosion on sailboat at NC coast | WNCN

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I've surveyed hundreds of sailboats with A4's .... never seen one safely installed. Everything from engine compartments with grills at the companionway venting into accomodation spaces, the back side of AC outlets exposed to the engine compartment (many with solid copper wiring). automotive non-ignition protected battery chargers, automotive carburetors, un-grounded fuel fill fittings, un-grounded fuel tanks, Battery chargers mounted directly over batteries, fuel fill hose resting on exhaust manifolds, cracked copper fuel lines, the list goes on and on.
I repeat .... hundreds of surveys with A4's, still have not seen a single safe installation.

Yep, you have been quite clear that hundreds of boats that you have surveyed with A-4s have terrible installations. Yet, none of them had exploded. One could reasonably extrapolate that there were thousands of sailboats with A4s out there, all with terrible, unsafe installations. Scary!

But as yet, no one has posted a specific incident where such a vessel has had a gasoline explosion. There may have been such, but as yet, no evidence has been presented.

I'm not an A4 fan. Had one in my Yankee 30 years ago, factory installation, likely not up to Boatpokers standards, no fires, no explosions. But, the local A4 experts (SF bay area) were universal in their opinion that if one ran them anywhere near their max ratings that their life expectancy was pretty grim. And, as an ex drag racer and engine builder, I could understand their fears. A four cylinder in line engine with but two main bearings is a bit scary as the revs build up! In typical day sailing applications they were fine, never being taxed very hard, but in a cruising environment, with a usage that includes having to run full power in difficult conditions at times, well, not my choice of power plant.

And to be honest, there are times when it is damn useful to be able to start up your engine without the five minute blower requirement. Usually as a result of a bad decision on the skipper's part... but I'll admit to having been such a lacking skip a few times over the years.

Getting back to the OPs questions, while I'd much prefer to have a diesel powered boat, I'd certainly not preclude a good A4 powered boat. If I was to buy it, I'd pay attention to all of Boatpoker's worries and try to correct all of them ASAP. Mostly they are not big buck changes and are amenable to DIY solutions.

And no fuel tanks in the cockpit...

Jim

[Scott Berg]

I had an A4 in my Hughes 38; 17K miles, minor issues. As noted, you'll want the upgraded ignition and an oil pressure shut off on the electric fuel filter; beyond that it's a nice, quiet, 30hp engine. Figure 1g/hr at cruising RPM, 1.5 WOT.