BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

[davenrino]

Most of the complaints on this thread are about common rail. The OP is looking at 30hp engines. The Yanmars at and below 30hp are not common rail.

[Bernard Q]

Just got a quote to supply thermostat for Yanmar 6PHME engine Seems it will cost me $380.00 for one here in Australia. They may be good engines but that is a crazy price.

[PPLepew]

Google YANMAR 128990-49800 gives you a range of US$40-100

[PPLepew]

Originally Posted by davenrino

The Yanmars at and below 30hp are not common rail.

Common Rail ?? What's that?

[Midnight Son]

Some reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail


Best wishes

[Captain Puget]

Both are good engines - it is the support, policies and pricing that are the differences. Yanmar is there to support the dealers, not the owners. You must go thru the dealer for everything if the warranty is to be valid.

When I had a mis-Installed exhaust and it sucked saltwater on a new engine (and the dealer left it sit for 3 days). Yanmar defended the dealer! Had to take the legal route, and ended up with a beta ... dead simple and easier to work on yourself. Cheaper parts and easier availability (tractor dealers everywhere if marine are not available).

[bouncycastle]

Back with better edit

[CarinaPDX]

You are really lost in the weeds .First thing is to go back and edit that post, which repeats everything 3 times.

A 13hp engine is if anything too small for a 30ft boat, even as an auxiliary. I put an 18hp in my 31' and while it was perfect for calm conditions it wasn't powerful enough to fight wind and waves in even strong breezes. For you to go back to a 9hp would be a mistake. The amount of fuel consumption is directly related to the power output: the 9 and the 13 will consume very nearly the same amount of fuel for the same output. While the 13 will be operating at a lower fraction of potential it doesn't matter here as you are using a lot of these engines. If it makes you feel better then move the engine speed up for a few minutes every hour. You do appear to have a problem, and that is the prop appears to be wrong. I would not switch to a 2-blade for cruising; you just need to get the diameter and pitch right. You might consider talking to a prop shop, or doing a bit more research.

Also, put an external regulator on the alternator that can sense and limit current output. And put a shutoff switch for the regulator so it doesn't take too much power from the engine when you need those (scarce) ponies (I don't mean to actually break the output). I never had anything larger than 65A on my 18hp, and when it switched on I could hear the engine slow - and my batteries couldn't take full output anyway. Above 65hp, or 70hp depending on who you believe, you need dual belts or a flat serpentine belt, which I suspect you do not have. Anyway, either regulate the max output down to a safe number or use a smaller alternator - best to put money into a smart regulator and limit output.

Greg

[Old fella]

Originally Posted by bouncycastle

Back with better edit

Mate, efficiency isn’t the fuel burnt per hour, it is ground covered per fuel burn, you need to find out your gear box reduction and go see a prop shop.

[CarinaPDX]

I am suspicious that the 12x9 3-blade was sized for the 9hp engine, and a roughly 50% increase in power at each rpm would require a greater pitch and/or diameter. But the problem really needs to be solved from scratch, as the prop shaft rpm may have changed (due to different transmission ratios) and of course the power curve is different from the old engine. When you go to the prop shop you will also want to have the LWL and displacement numbers. They should be able to get close to optimal. Some cruisers recommend "over-propping" for cruising use, in order to operate more efficiently at the cost of being able to operate at the highest part of the curve. For a 13hp engine on a 30' boat I seriously doubt that would be wise. One possibility if you have a little money is to buy a self-feathering prop that has stops that can be adjusted to change pitch; this will be faster under sail and allow tuning of the pitch so you only need to get the diameter correct when buying.

It's too late for me to edit but clearly my earlier post was intended to refer to 65A and 70A alternators, not 65hp and 70hp.

Greg

[stormalong]

I saw your original post before you deleted it.

First my pet peeve. No where in your post or profile do you say what the make/model/length is of your boat. Please update your profile to get better answers.

If the 13 HP engine is running good do not replace it with a smaller engine. Your best bet is to re-prop. Fuel consumption is based on horsepower produced, not engine size. If you want a larger alternator that extra HP will come in handy. Don't worry about not loading the engine enough. With the proper prop it will be loaded sufficiently to prevent cylinder glazing.

That RPM instrument is called a tachometer.

[nmccubbin]

I think you describe the situation well. We had a volvo (junk) and replaced with a Beta in 2014 Great engine. Started first bang EVERY time, even in the Arctic with icebergs floating around. We have never used the heaters to start
Good company support both in Europe (by Beta Head office) and the US by Beta NC
Beta looks after their customers.
We looked at a Yanmar before buying Beta. Yanmar are good engines. but tech support was zero. I never got an answer from Yanmar to emailed technical questions pre-purchase.
The dealer answers were wooly.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by nmccubbin

]We had a volvo (junk) and replaced with a Beta in 2014

The problem I have with statement like this is that it ignores the current reality: the Volvo-Penta branded engines today are not even made by V-P, and are a world away in quality. They are actually Shibauru diesels, made in Japan, and are very well built.They are distributed by Perkins and were originally marinized by Perkins-Sabre before selling the line to V-P. There is one common problem (the black box "MDI" is unreliable, but is not essential to engine operation) and beyond that I don't recall hearing of any failings. They are fine engines, and support is widely available (admittedly at a price).

The old Volvo engines were designed more than half a century ago, and as one might expect were fairly primitive. They were heavy, noisy, dirty, and inefficient; commonly they were sea-water cooled which meant mineral build-up. My old Sabb fit that description as well, although perhaps a bit better. I have seen many Perkins 4-108 engines that were similarly primitive, sans the minerals. Any modern engine blows away these old designs.

That said I am a fan of the Beta as well. One of their strengths is the flexibility of configuration at the purchase: it is possible to choose things like the size of alternator, belt type, instrument panel - all manner of things. Clearly their customer service in the US and UK is high quality. My only concern is with any brand that does not have a world-wide service network, as I have had to import parts while in distant countries and it is a PITA, no fault of the manufacturer. OTOH parts costs might be better than Volvo or Yanmar (that's a low bar).

Greg

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

That said I am a fan of the Beta as well. One of their strengths is the flexibility of configuration at the purchase: it is possible to choose things like the size of alternator, belt type, instrument panel - all manner of things. Clearly their customer service in the US and UK is high quality. My only concern is with any brand that does not have a world-wide service network, as I have had to import parts while in distant countries and it is a PITA, no fault of the manufacturer. OTOH parts costs might be better than Volvo or Yanmar (that's a low bar).

Greg

Interesting remark. Beta uses Kubota engines and other than the marine conversion parts the Kubota parts are available at any Kubota dealer. Need a mechanic in a remote location? Seek out the farm equipment dealer. I doubt that Volvo-Penta has anywhere near the number of service locations.

Having said that, my 4500 hour 17 year old Beta 50 engine has had professional service visits twice. First time was a mechanic Beta sent out to inspect my installation, paid by Beta. The second time was just before the five year warranty was about to expire and I wanted to be sure that there were no issues with the engine.

I have done all other scheduled and unscheduled maintenance myself. The only repairs needed in 17 years has been: rebuild water pump">raw water pump, replace injectors (still not sure they needed replacing) and cleaning out the heat exchanger tube stack by soaking it in vinegar for a couple of days.

[CarinaPDX]

As has been noted frequently, modern diesel engines rarely need repairs; it is the marinization part of the engine that is usually needing repair and that is sourced from the marinizer, not the engine manufacturer. So the fact that Beta uses Kubotas is not usually relevant; if their marine parts are priced reasonably that is important (hard to believe they would have the nerve to price up there with V-P and Yanmar but worth checking). Part of the attraction of the Volvo for me was that it was a Perkins - only it wasn't. Shibauru parts might be hard to source, but again not really critical: the marine parts come only from V-P. And they do have stocking dealers for those parts all over the world.

Greg