Beware new yanmars

[avb3]

Originally Posted by colemj

It doesn't have to - it is just going in that direction regardless.

As for taking it to a specialized dealer if problems occur, buy an engine that doesn't require this. I just gave the example of John Deere overnighting ECU's to a boat in the San Blas Islands off the coast of Panama. These were brought right to the boat by a Panga. Others gave an example of being able to buy a spare ECU from their engine manufacturer. Don't buy from anyone requiring you to deliver the boat to a specialized dealer for repairs.

I doubt you have any real data supporting your statement that electronics on these engines fail at a much more rapid rate than mechanical components. That may sound "right" to you, and support your bias, but personally I suspect it is quite the opposite. It certainly is for automobiles and commercial vehicles.

Mark

Your correct, I do not have real world empirical data.

However, there is enough anecdotal evidence for it to be a concern. Don't be too sure about your comment about vehicles either. Up here in the northern bush in the oil patch problems with electronic systems in vehicles are a frequent point of discussion. The "limp home" feature is OK if you are in an urban environment, but not OK when stuck miles back in the bush.

In the meantime, I will rebuild my old style Yanmar, or if not possible, get a Beta. Fortunately, at this point, my engine is great and low hours. I love electronics, but I also am well aware that they have limitations, which usually crop up at the worst possible moment. The KISS principle usually works.

[Coops]

It's the same here in Australia regarding motor vehicles. A lot of modern vehicles are everything the owner wants, until they go bush, which is the big majority of this country. An awful lot of true and seasoned travellers are looking for the older vehicles without ecu's for this purpose.

From my experiences, ecu's produce fuel efficient, powerful vehicles but add a complexity that does not give confidence miles from nowhere.

In the last 10 years the only major faults that I have had with vehicles have been ecu related in origin.

Coops.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dustybilges

My intention when I started this was to get information out about electronic engines . ...........

I thought it was to warn people not to buy new Yanmar engines.

[DeepFrz]

Here is a quote from Lugger Bob...

People like to say they can fix the mechanical engines themselves if something goes wrong, but if a mechanical fuel injection pump fails, the owner can’t fix it himself – that requires a fuel injection shop. The electronic pump is less likely to fail since it’s a lot more robust, but it also requires a small electronic control unit (ECU). You can carry a spare – like carrying a spare GPS – and replace it in 5 minutes if there were ever a problem.

[Moonos]

I absolutely love new technology. I have had many hi tech cars and all kinds of gadgets my whole life.

I will never buy a hi tech diesel for a boat that will go cruising remotely. That is just crazy.

If forced to I would just rebuild rather than replace with a computer controlled diesel. The problem is what to do if you buy a new boat, you are then forced to go with what is available.

[Cheechako]

There's a reason high end cars lose value at a faster rate than less expensive ones. Mercedes, Cadillac etc... devalue real fast. My guess is because all those fancy electronic things have trouble and are expensive to fix. My old mother in law insists on having a Cadillac.... man I cant believe the money she spends on repairs.... I mean $1300 bucks is just a common thing for her...


Still... the black box controls on modern cars seem to be pretty darn reliable... the real question is will marine diesels ever get that reliable or go the way of the small outboards with the black box in them.....seems they always are in need of a fix....

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

There's a reason high end cars lose value at a faster rate than less expensive ones. Mercedes, Cadillac etc... devalue real fast. My guess is because all those fancy electronic things have trouble and are expensive to fix. My old mother in law insists on having a Cadillac.... man I cant believe the money she spends on repairs.... I mean $1300 bucks is just a common thing for her...

No, that isn't it. It is because the price margins are larger to start with, and they are marketed into a segment that doesn't value used and equates expense with quality.

Mark

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Moonos

I will never buy a hi tech diesel for a boat that will go cruising remotely. That is just crazy..

You will if you live long enough and don't give up boating.

[S/V Antares]

This thread reminds me of my old carbureted Buick that went about 60K before it started to fall apart. POS. The tier 2&3 regs are about over 50 or so HP.
You can still buy a fully mechanical simple diesel from many builders that do not have high pressure loop injection. However these systems have great benefits. My new car gets twice the mileage of my old one with the same engine size.

The CPU is usually the very last thing to fail on modern diesels. It is still the same stuff... water pumps, filters, risers etc. that fail.

That said...I have a Beta 38 that is a great replacement engine over the original "red" one

[model 10]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You will if you live long enough and don't give up boating.

Or move to someplace that will somehow get by on old tech. What would some Cuban's do?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by S/V Antares

This thread reminds me of my old carbureted Buick that went about 60K before it started to fall apart. POS. The tier 2&3 regs are about over 50 or so HP.
You can still buy a fully mechanical simple diesel from many builders that do not have high pressure loop injection. However these systems have great benefits. My new car gets twice the mileage of my old one with the same engine size.

The CPU is usually the very last thing to fail on modern diesels. It is still the same stuff... water pumps, filters, risers etc. that fail.

That said...I have a Beta 38 that is a great replacement engine over the original "red" one

I often wonder how much the computer control, 5-8 speed trannies really really improve the auto mileage. They are scraping the bottom of the bucket to get that last couple percentage points with that stuff is my guess. Weight is where the big saving is. In the aerospace industry, every ounce of weight savings at design is worth a certain number of $.
A 1968 302 V8, 2 barrel carbureated Mercury Montego would consistently get 21 mpg. I worked at the Merc garage and we had a fleet of vehicles. My recent V6 minivan gets about the same. However a small Hyundai gets 40 mpg. I have a feeling that even without the computer control it would still b e close. A mid 80's Toyota corolla station wagon got 35 and was heavier without any computer control.
I would bet the automotive black box effects pollution a lot though adjusting for sitting at traffic lights etc....

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

However a small Hyundai gets 40 mpg. I have a feeling that even without the computer control it would still b e close.

One thing the modern computer control does is make smaller engines perform better. So that the small car is agile and fun to drive. Nothing beats electric traction here though.
In Europe more diesel cars are sold now then petrol. It used to be that if you bought a diesel you would have to accept that you would have a slower, more cumbersome car. Thanks to modern diesel engines this is no longer the case.

[manitu]

i bellieve most if not all kubota and mitsubishi diesels are non-ecu engines

Kubota: Nanni, Beta, and Universal
Mitsubishi: Sole, Vetus, Craftsman, ++

Volvo D-1 engines have electronic instruments , but I bellieve they have a 100% mechanically controlled diesel pump.

Another bad engine design (imo) is the small Lombardini engines. Not only computer controlled , but allso belt-driven camshaft.

.manitu

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by rwidman

... Congress created the EPA to deflect criticism from themselves ...

Actually, I believe that Richard Nixon created the EPA, by executive order.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" ~ Lee Iacocca

[manitu]

Checked the Volvo D1-xx series. First gen. had a problem in the ecu. A component inside broke loose during the first 15-30 starts. Volvo did'nt think it was a big problem at first , but had to replace the ecu's in 2007-8. the volvo engine will not start without the ecu , but runs just fine. So if you have a Volvo d1 engine , you can rig a emergency start cable with a starter switch , from the battery to the starter solenoid.

The volvo ecu is allso user replaceable, so you can carry a spare

.manitu