Bio Diesel & 4-108

[CaptG]

Have been using both off road (red) & on road (clear)diesel in my old 4-108 for many years. Is there any benefit or harm in switching to bio?

[hellosailor]

AFAIK the folks who sell it say no, but no engine makers will recommend more than a 5-10% BD mixture into regular fuel. So, which one do you believe?

[Chief Engineer]

I'm not sure but doesn't it have to be preheated?

It seems that some of the cars that run on it have some kind of heater for the fuel.

Plus the price I have seen for biodiesel around here is about the same as regular diesel

I am not a great beLIEver in using foodstock for fuel

[Celestialsailor]

A friend of mine was making his own bio for his Dodge/Cummings diesel truck. He said there is concern over the "type" of injector pump you have. Bio could apparently harm some pumps. Perhaps a google search could turn up more info for you CaptG. I certainly can see your reluctance to jump into anything. Diesel repairs are EXPENSIVE!!!

[Blue Stocking]

A number of the large marine engine manufacturers have made statements cautiously referring to the mix of up to 20% bio being burned in their engines. There are concerns about the type of rubber seals in fuel pumps on older engines. Have no business interest in, but found "green earth technology group" an informative site.
A recent Wooden Boat mag had a very informative article.

[never monday]

In concentrations >20% it can and will destroy natural rubber products. There are issues with gelling in colder climates.
When you convert to bio, be prepared for filter clogging.

[john540]

A guy I know started a biodiesel company. He bought a new Mercedes diesel and ran 100 percent biodiesel in it with no problems, for about two months, then he was stranded on the side of the road. It turned out to be a rubber compatibility issue, so it's not just old engines that may have a problem. Rudolph Diesel's first engine was designed to run on biodiesel, peanut oil to be precise. Many people run pure biodiesel with no problems, but, unlike refined crude oil, it's fairly unregulated, and there are products out there of various qualities. One nice feature of biodiesel, is that an individual of average intelligence can make their own, from either virgin vegetable oil, or used cooking oil.

[TexSail]

Diesel engines are expensive and I would like to think that the refinery engineers are not just sitting around masturbating or watching The Three Stooges. Before you run french fry grease in your diesel, maybe consider purity, cetane ratings, sediment, viscosity at low temps, and biological growth potential. JMHO.

[Celestialsailor]

TexSail said:- "Diesel engines are expensive and I would like to think that the refinery engineers are not just sitting around masturbating or watching The Three Stooges".

I wouldn't count on that!

[john540]

Originally Posted by TexSail

Diesel engines are expensive and I would like to think that the refinery engineers are not just sitting around masturbating or watching The Three Stooges. Before you run french fry grease in your diesel, maybe consider purity, cetane ratings, sediment, viscosity at low temps, and biological growth potential. JMHO.

Those engineers can do one or the other, but not both at once, that's where I draw the line!

All of those things are good to consider, and some should be considered with regular diesel too (and jet fuel). With virgin biodiesel, acidity is another thing to consider. If those things have been taken into account, "good" biodiesel can have positive benefits. There have been cars fueled on biodiesel that have gone over a million miles. Most biodiesel has higher lubricity, and I've heard anecdotal evidence of better MPG on it. The exhaust smell is far more pleasant. Plus, you can make it yourself.

That being said, I wouldn't go out and fill my jerry can from some birkenstock-wearing dreadlocked hippie smelling like pot and promising that this biodiesel is good sh!t with extra plant matter added to get my engine high. Or from some some guy in a trenchcoat who has a fresh shipment of biodiesel that just "fell off a truck". Like anything, good engineering is important.

[CaptG]

It doesn't sound like biodiesel should be my first choice for my old 4-108. I think I'll stick with the low sulphur diesel that I've been using for the last 3 years. It seems the sevice stations here sell only low sulphur or bio ( 10 % or 20%) but there is one dealer that still sells high sulphur diesel for off road use.....or so they claim. I've been told that the high sulphur is better for the pump seals but I doubt it's very good for the environment.

[Minggat]

The Perkins shop I use just said emphatically "Don't use biodiesel". I can only imagine they have seen the results. That's good enough for me.

[TexSail]

Originally Posted by john540

Those engineers can do one or the other, but not both at once, that's where I draw the line!

Come to think of it, if they were doing both at the same time, they would be a little different, but we have all met some squirrels in this life.

[CaptG]

Originally Posted by Minggat

The Perkins shop I use just said emphatically "Don't use biodiesel". I can only imagine they have seen the results. That's good enough for me.

That's good enough for me also.

[hellosailor]

I think even the BD proponants distinguish between simple new oils (like peanut oil) and waste vegetable oil--WVO--the used stuff from fryers. Restaurants used to pay to have their WVO hauled away, so they were glad to have folks come asking to take it. These days, it can be sold--so it is much harder to get it free, and that changes the whole dynamic of using biodiesel.

It is hard to buy ANY kind of unused vegetable oil for under five dollars a gallon, making pump diesel the price leader at that point.