Can I move my 38-foot boat with an outboard?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

If you do this, just get a bigger outboard.
You just need to have the throttle and shift available.
Point it straight.
You steer with the tiller or wheel.
SV Cloud Duster

That’s not how it works, actually. I used to think the same thing.

It’s all about the prop. You can throw a bazillion HP at the problem but where outboards come up short is on the prop and gear ratios.

I’m not talking from theory. I have 60hp of outboards as my main engines with high thrust props. Still not good enough to get all that 60hp to the water. The props slip at high rpm because the diameter is too small.

You need efficient, low pitch, high diameter props to move displacement hulls in an equivalent way to diesels of the same HP. Sadly, these don’t fit the outboard legs and aren’t available from the manufacturers. Outboards are focused on high speed planing craft.

Notice in my post above the one you quoted, I said he would be fine doing the outboard. The post you quoted was me answering his question of WHY most people don’t.

I’m still working on my props. Hoping I can find a good aftermarket solution to get my 60hp to the water without slip.

[boatman61]

Gotta laugh..
I always thought Good Seamanship came from being able to operate ones boat competently under any and all manageable circumstances..
Engine failure, mast loss, rudder failure etc..
Yet we have nothing but negativity coming from people who it seems have never tried it, yet are convinced it cannot/will not work.
Sorry to disillusion you but it does work and, a good seaman can work around any weaknesses this system may suffer.
Coming into a berth safely does Not depend on a reliable big diesel, it depends on the person driving the boat.. a good seaman adapts to the circumstances he finds himself in and behaves accordingly.
Sure you won't be able to motor against a f3+ and 1 metre chop but it's a sailboat and that's what sails are for.. along wuth a manoeuvre called Tacking.
Once upon a time on CF members would rally to advise on how to overcome the inefficiencies, but no more.
I motored over 100nm at around 5kts going N from Lisbon, sure, every 6hrs my SOG dropped by 1.5 knots when the tide ebbed but let's face it.. that even happens with diesel.
The reality is more likely folk are used to schedules and sail to them, they don't have it in them to just go with the flow so feel the need to disparage any idea that rocks their boat.
Seems the efforts of the few to turn CF into a branch of Facebook and their personal soapbox for whatever ***** they want to stir are paying off..
This forum bears little resemblance to the forum I joined where we happily called each other out and pulled tails over seamanship matters while being prepared to learn new things, into a name calling circus dancing to the tune of the puppet master out to push political divides into a a place where it does not belong..
How long before a boat pulls up to a liferaft and the Skipper asks.. "Republican or Democrat" and if getting the wrong answer gives the finger and sails on.
Having been subject to the judgement of an 'experienced sailor' who sailed on by when the emergency services put out a call for boats in the area to assist my disabled boat.
As he put it, "if you can't operate a boat with an engine and sails you have no business at sea".
Seems CF has lurched into the Shadow Lands of political influencing and away from the sea by influencers whose last post/threads about the sea and boat handling lie in CF's distant past.
And folks wonder why I take the piss..

[Chotu]

@boatman61 - correct on a lot of accounts. I remember in my “how to move a 65ft mast yourself “ thread, the huge number of people with what I now call a “can’t do” attitude.

Gotta hire a trained “professional” (fellow human being) to wipe your butt for you. Couldn’t possibly do it yourself. Ha ha.

Maybe we are getting old here, but I’m with you 100% on the spirit of your post. It surprises me how many people think almost everything is impossible.

I’m thankful for the members still willing to give it a shot and try things or brainstorm a bit about how to do something. It’s really the spirit of boats to do that.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

Actually the CD owner I cited earlier speced a manual start for reliability. You start the outboard before lowering it.

To the OP, realistically speaking, starting might be difficult, electric start is an option on motors, even installed after market. The freeboard of a Sabre 38 will put the motor far away from one's easy reach even on a bracket which allows the motor to come up 10", especially mounted on the transom when it needs to be as low as possible to keep the prop in the water.

To Mara Mae, I'm glad you decided to withdraw the snarky assertion; my comment was sincere and based on my own experience (three years) with an outboard powered 30 foot sloop.

[anacapaisland42]

We have a 9.9 Yamaha on our 32 foot 13,000 boat.
It moves it just fine but is not good at stopping it....have to be careful.
Watch that the motor doesn't twist which makes steering a bear.
After the inboard fried we motored a thousand miles with the Yamaha on the Achilles which was rafted tight amidships, fore and aft, with the gas tank on the main boat for easy refilling
Bill

Originally Posted by Bluenoserumlvr

I have a troubled diesel on my Sabre 38, which covid has kept from me for too long. I will shortly be reunited with it, and want to head south from Florida. It sails well and I only plan to use a motor for marinas. Here's my question: What is stopping me from using an outboard just to move around marinas? I have a 6hp. How fast would that move a 15,600-pound boat. How do you rig an outboard on a big sailboat like that? Am I totally mad to even think about this?

[boatman61]

To operate the OB while in the water all one needs is throttle control easily achieved with a tiller extension, store bought or homemade.. keep the motor locked in a fore n aft position.
The same can be done with the gear shift.
As for coming into berths you enter slowly and bow first with short bursts to maintain just enough momentum for steerage and have a midship line set up to use as a stopper.
Leaving, you just untie, get her moving with the OB in reverse and a push off the pontoon..
If a Hood 38 can do it no reason why the lighter Sabre cannot, and if you look at my pic in the earlier post you'll see the transom are similar even if the Hood 38 is narrower and maybe steeper, just need to adapt and relearn your boat.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Bluenoserumlvr

I have a troubled diesel on my Sabre 38, which covid has kept from me for too long. I will shortly be reunited with it, and want to head south from Florida. It sails well and I only plan to use a motor for marinas. Here's my question: What is stopping me from using an outboard just to move around marinas? I have a 6hp. How fast would that move a 15,600-pound boat. How do you rig an outboard on a big sailboat like that? Am I totally mad to even think about this?

Given my years of experience with a 6-hp (on a smaller, lighter boat), I'd think it's possible if you're planning to restrict your sailing to places where you have a wide approach to a protected harbor with a short entrance (see Scituate below). Sounds like you are, in which case you can skip the next three paragraphs.

Up here in the Gulf of Maine, we have quite a few places where you just can't sail in [canals, narrow channels, treacherous rips and 9'-11' tidal range] unless you can afford to time those runs, races, canals, and rips for perfect conditions. The 6 HP outboard won't get it done unless you time it for slack water.

Or you tack like a maniac, which I've been able to do in places like Hull Gut below (3+ knot current) on a 40-foot Hanse with a self-tacking jib.

I saw a guy sail a 34-footer in the miles-long, treacherously narrow channel to Plymouth (see below) because his engine had quit. He was at the breakwater to the mooring area when he finally had to call the harbormaster for help. Great job sailing, but that was out of desperation. He must not have had a Sea Tow membership or the $1,000 it costs non-members.

In any case, if you do go the outboard approach, I hope you update us with how it's going. Fair winds (and currents)!

[Tetepare]

The question isn’t whether it can be done, it’s whether it should be done. The answer for both depends on the crew. As noted, if you have to ask the question the answer is probably no.

Can I drive the Rockies in a snowstorm without chains? Sure go ahead. Can I weld up a machine gun legally and hold it together with screws? Yup. Are those asking such questions possessing the talent and experience to do so? No.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s not how it works, actually. I used to think the same thing.

It’s all about the prop. You can throw a bazillion HP at the problem but where outboards come up short is on the prop and gear ratios.

I’m not talking from theory. I have 60hp of outboards as my main engines with high thrust props. Still not good enough to get all that 60hp to the water. The props slip at high rpm because the diameter is too small.

You need efficient, low pitch, high diameter props to move displacement hulls in an equivalent way to diesels of the same HP. Sadly, these don’t fit the outboard legs and aren’t available from the manufacturers. Outboards are focused on high speed planing craft.

Notice in my post above the one you quoted, I said he would be fine doing the outboard. The post you quoted was me answering his question of WHY most people don’t.

I’m still working on my props. Hoping I can find a good aftermarket solution to get my 60hp to the water without slip.

Agreed, dialing in the "best" combination, all considered, is trial and error sometimes.
And occasionally we get it working for us.

I read the OP, ask if he could Move his boat with an outboard.
Quote:
"Here's my question: What is stopping me from using an outboard just to move around marinas? I have a 6hp. How fast would that move a 15,600-pound boat. How do you rig an outboard on a big sailboat like that? Am I totally mad to even think about this?"

I added Hp Because he was talking about 38ft with possible variables and all, wind, freeboard, and all.
I Believe I'd want a bit more power, if needed and slow it down long before I got into trouble, one does not need to throw power at most situations in docking and moveing the boat.
In these cases of Emergency stops, inboards dont add much help.
And can even foul your steering ability up.
Awareness, prudence, are my best friends.
Barring a critical toilet issue at the last moment docking, we're going to be fine.

Seems the original question got buried in all situations for an OB, in the thread.
SV Cloud Duster

[chasfgr]

I moved a 31' sailboat with a 1.5hp Johnson, short shaft.


It got up to about 4 1/2 kts, but was only good for calm inland waters.
As soon as you had a sea running it cavitayed and then got ducked.


So it's perfectly possible to move your boat, of nearly any size, around with an outboard, but not fast or in anything but calm water.
You'll also find the fuel consumption prohibitively limited (not just cost but carrying sufficient).

[keith001]

Will work fine. Used a 5 on a 30’ for years. The short shaft is the issue. When you really need it it will be in and out of the water. And forget about stopping.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s not how it works, actually. I used to think the same thing.

It’s all about the prop. You can throw a bazillion HP at the problem but where outboards come up short is on the prop and gear ratios.

I’m not talking from theory. I have 60hp of outboards as my main engines with high thrust props. Still not good enough to get all that 60hp to the water. The props slip at high rpm because the diameter is too small.

You need efficient, low pitch, high diameter props to move displacement hulls in an equivalent way to diesels of the same HP. Sadly, these don’t fit the outboard legs and aren’t available from the manufacturers. Outboards are focused on high speed planing craft.

Notice in my post above the one you quoted, I said he would be fine doing the outboard. The post you quoted was me answering his question of WHY most people don’t.

I’m still working on my props. Hoping I can find a good aftermarket solution to get my 60hp to the water without slip.

Yep, it's true. I got a four bladed power prop for mine and it works well, but there is that limitation. Keeping the prop in the water is important too of course. Your Sabre likely won't pitch too much so that is a point in your favor. If you are determined to go this route, I'd suggest a custom hoist that can elevate the engine clear out with having to tilt it, and can be lowered quickly too. I was lucky the previous owner of my boat was an engineer and worked out a hoist with a good geometry that allows me to hoist it quickly and easily, without tilting it. Feel free to see it in my albums. As far as starting it, as you may know, you can't start it until it's in the water, so you have to be able to lean over and take care of starting and shutting it off, and shifting gears, easily. I think your stern will allow for that. I think a 20" long shaft will probably work for you, and you'll need a good place to store the fuel tanks safely.
You can make it work and a 9.9 will do ok, though I'd look to a 15 hp for your boat. But I still HIGHLY recommend you keep focusing on getting your inboard back online, it is definitely the preferred alternative.

[MicHughV]

I tried this...had a 15 hp strapped on the back of 38' boat. Even had a 15" extension on the engine to get the prop lower in the water.
Getting in and out of marina...it works...sorta ...kinda....it really requires two people...one at the wheel, the other at the engine.
But in any kind of chop, prop either comes out of the water or real close to the surface, negating it's use.

Off course, head wind reduces your forward motion to a crawl.

Reverse, is off course, a joke.

As Don mentions above, starting it, and hoisting and lowering into the water requires some planning and effort.

Also the cowling ends up real close to the water. I lost the cowling on my outboard, when a wave knocked it off. Needless, to say, this also stopped the engine.

Outboards suck a prodigious amount of fuel, they can drain a standard 6 gallon tank in no time.
Remember...we are talking about gasoline here !!! Enuff said !!

Lastly, it looks completely out of place.

Having done this, I simply can't recommend it. It has limited use. It's your choice of course, and usually $$$ driven, but is lousy economy.

Save your money, you are wa-a-a-a-a-y better off getting the inboard taken care off.

[MicHughV]

just for grins.....this is my boat with the 15 hp on the back....photo was taken a number of years ago....

you will notice I'm aground.........I could elaborate why.....but....maybe another time.....suffice it to say, the outboard idea was short lived...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Gotta laugh..
I always thought Good Seamanship came from being able to operate ones boat competently under any and all manageable circumstances..
Engine failure, mast loss, rudder failure etc..
Yet we have nothing but negativity coming from people who it seems have never tried it, yet are convinced it cannot/will not work.
Sorry to disillusion you but it does work and, a good seaman can work around any weaknesses this system may suffer.
Coming into a berth safely does Not depend on a reliable big diesel, it depends on the person driving the boat.. a good seaman adapts to the circumstances he finds himself in and behaves accordingly.
Sure you won't be able to motor against a f3+ and 1 metre chop but it's a sailboat and that's what sails are for.. along wuth a manoeuvre called Tacking.
Once upon a time on CF members would rally to advise on how to overcome the inefficiencies, but no more.
I motored over 100nm at around 5kts going N from Lisbon, sure, every 6hrs my SOG dropped by 1.5 knots when the tide ebbed but let's face it.. that even happens with diesel.
The reality is more likely folk are used to schedules and sail to them, they don't have it in them to just go with the flow so feel the need to disparage any idea that rocks their boat.
Seems the efforts of the few to turn CF into a branch of Facebook and their personal soapbox for whatever ***** they want to stir are paying off..
This forum bears little resemblance to the forum I joined where we happily called each other out and pulled tails over seamanship matters while being prepared to learn new things, into a name calling circus dancing to the tune of the puppet master out to push political divides into a a place where it does not belong..
How long before a boat pulls up to a liferaft and the Skipper asks.. "Republican or Democrat" and if getting the wrong answer gives the finger and sails on.
Having been subject to the judgement of an 'experienced sailor' who sailed on by when the emergency services put out a call for boats in the area to assist my disabled boat.
As he put it, "if you can't operate a boat with an engine and sails you have no business at sea".
Seems CF has lurched into the Shadow Lands of political influencing and away from the sea by influencers whose last post/threads about the sea and boat handling lie in CF's distant past.
And folks wonder why I take the piss..

What Boatman says maybe true...?
However it's in the wrong category.
Nor reflects all that post here.
If we are not able to post positive constructive comments based on boating experience, rather than broad attacks of proposed political opposition.
How can this be constructive to less experienced boaters.

Hope your day's gets brighter Boatman61.
No worries about your post..just dont think it's helpful in this instance.
Question to you is What should be done about this issue in your view.
Possibly a different category?
SV Cloud Duster