Common rail marine diesel engine v standard

[Sulaire]

Just took a look at pricing on yanmar CR Spare injector -£1000 for 1!, same thing on same sized standard engine- £298 for 1. Hmmm carrying spares would be an expensive business., they do not even quote for a spare control unit. Beta looking more atractive...

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Sulaire

Just took a look at pricing on yanmar CR Spare injector -£1000 for 1!, same thing on same sized standard engine- £298 for 1. Hmmm carrying spares would be an expensive business., they do not even quote for a spare control unit. Beta looking more atractive...

I have a Beta 50. Installed myself in 2003 and after 4000 hours still happy with it. When I chose Beta I also looked at a VW diesel. One of the big decision making points was that this particular VW engine was brand new to the marine market and that it was computer controlled. I chose the mechanical option. In the ensuing years Beta has grown considerably and I never hear anything about VW marine so I guess I made the right choice.

[Elie]

Classic fuel injection systems implies many complicated components and very precise adjustments, and from time to time, expert's machine shop are required to fix a problem. Expensive!. The common rail system is mecanically wise, much simpler, with fewer parts. And some electronic components. These can hardly be fixed let alone fixed ofshore... Impossible. But carrying an electronic module is a very simple et failsafe solution. Other advantages for CR systems include a better mettering of fuel, starting in cold weather, simple injectors, and a high pressure pump that need not be purged for air(automatic). Simply, it is a very good modern solution. So for me CR is the way to go... And keep in mind that in our boats a full of electronics and electricity is part of our everyday's way of life in our yachts. So, one more electronic device is just that!!!

[moseriw]

Nope - Do not buy common rail or turbo just a good old tractor engine. It will last long 1600 - 1800 rpm
and if you are lucky you will not have any problems with scrap fuel

[Stu Jackson]

My understanding of the differences, in addition to those already mentioned, is that CR engines require electricity to continue to run once started. A standard engine, once started, needs only air and fuel.


That difference, if I'm correct, is huge in a recreational boat, not so at all in an automobile or truck.


Sure, a stable and consistent electrical system is certainly preferred on your boat, but I'd rather be on the last legs of an electrical system failure and be able to start my engine and keep it running without any power than the other option.


Sure, an argument could be made that once the engine starts the alternator will provide the power, but an alternator failure could well have been the cause of the electrical system failure.


It's risk analysis 101.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lepke

If you're crossing oceans or have other reasons for reliability, I would pick an engine that was 100% mechanical with no electrical needs other than starting.

I had tugs and other commercial boats. I still have many working friends. Electronics in a salt water environment are not as reliable as the old mechanical systems. They're not even reliable in trucks, but there you can pull over and wait for a mechanic. I know people that carry a full set of sensors, injectors and circuit boards as spares. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars tied up in spare electronic parts. A fisherman friend with a new electronic diesel could only idle back in from 100 miles out. And a hundred other stories.

Another issue is the time getting parts at far away places.
The people that love them are the ones that fix them, have the specialized diagnostic equipment, and sell parts.
My diesel pickup is just as bad. My glove box if full of spare electronic parts.

The simpler the better. You are probably referring to mechanical fuel pump and cam driven injectors.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by billknny

Realistically, NOBODY is ever going to repair a broken mechanical injection pump without a full specialized shop and the highly specialized tools to do so. Don't tell me you have a mechanical injection pump because you can fix it--you can't. On the other hand, they don't break often.

Exactly right. Nobody is going to tear down their mechanical fuel pump in the cockpit half way to Hawaii. If the worst happens, that is the precise point of an auxiliary sailboat. You have sails!

[Cadence]

I like the diesel that can be stolen by putting a wrench or a screw drive across the starter solenoid. Once it's running there is not as much to go wrong.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by NYSail

If I were to replace my engine now I would go with a beta marine as they as mechanical in nature and avoid the electronics.

Greg

[Sulaire]

Billknny said-


“Realistically, NOBODY is ever going to repair a broken mechanical injection pump without a full specialized shop and the highly specialized tools to do so. Don't tell me you have a mechanical injection pump because you can fix it--you can't. On the other hand, they don't break often. “


As i have discovered , they do break when the guy you paid to rebuild your engine drops part of the engine, smashing the alternator( which he replaced), and cracking the fuel injection pump casing ( which yanmar stopped making in 2015, with no units anywhere in stock!). Working with liquid metal at the moment to try and stop the oil leak....

Old engine, no parts... the joys...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Sulaire

Billknny said-


“Realistically, NOBODY is ever going to repair a broken mechanical injection pump without a full specialized shop and the highly specialized tools to do so. Don't tell me you have a mechanical injection pump because you can fix it--you can't. On the other hand, they don't break often. “


As i have discovered , they do break when the guy you paid to rebuild your engine drops part of the engine, smashing the alternator( which he replaced), and cracking the fuel injection pump casing ( which yanmar stopped making in 2015, with no units anywhere in stock!). Working with liquid metal at the moment to try and stop the oil leak....

Old engine, no parts... the joys...

Probably someone with a mechanical fuel pump can afford to have one aboard, and a gasket, if they are doing extended cruising..

[01kiwijohn]

I've lived through all the same speculation and skepticism as when electronics were first introduced into the construction machinery field. Now, you can see these machines working, sometimes waist deep in water, and almost never failing. I also am proficient at rebuilding Carburetors (remember those?) and am happy to see them go away.
Yes, there are stories of CR fuel system failures but, with reasonable preparation, I'd be comfortable having one in my boat. Just don't scrimp on routine (and I mean, Routine) maintenance and use good quality oils, and filters for fuel and oil.

[a64pilot]

In five or ten years, it’s likely most of us won’t have a choice.
Try buying a carbureted automobile, with points ignition, and drum brakes for instance.

[john61ct]

Plenty of old ones around.

In good condition get good prices too, the EMP-proof crowd is growing.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

In five or ten years, it’s likely most of us won’t have a choice.
Try buying a carbureted automobile, with points ignition, and drum brakes for instance.