Common rail marine diesel engine v standard

[a64pilot]

I have a theory on the price of ULSD, totally unfounded.
The oil companies got what they wanted, higher prices, and the greenies kept quiet, cause they got what they wanted, lower pollution.
I thought though that higher price for ULSD was world wide, although there are some places where it’s Government subsidized.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...
I thought though that higher price for ULSD was world wide, although there are some places where it’s Government subsidized.

...or just taxed less, maybe not subsiidized. A BIG % of the price at the pump is taxes.

[sandy stone]

I used to work at an oil refinery and personally witnessed the modification of a diesel desufurization unit to produce ULSD. They brought in and erected a catalyst tower about 100 ft tall and 15 feet in diameter, then had to fill it with fairly expensive catalyst that lasts about a year, maybe a little more, at which time the unit must be shut down and the catalyst replaced. Trust me, it costs the refinery megabucks to reduce sulfur down to 15 ppm.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

I used to work at an oil refinery and personally witnessed the modification of a diesel desufurization unit to produce ULSD. They brought in and erected a catalyst tower about 100 ft tall and 15 feet in diameter, then had to fill it with fairly expensive catalyst that lasts about a year, maybe a little more, at which time the unit must be shut down and the catalyst replaced. Trust me, it costs the refinery megabucks to reduce sulfur down to 15 ppm.

Doesn't explain why it's more expensive than gasoline in the USA tho when in New Zealand the maximum level of sulphur is 10ppm & no Diesel is definitely not subsidised. We only have the one oil refinery so it's not like competition forces have any effect locally. Oil companies are allowed to import refined product
Probably the tax angle is the most likely explanation

[Oceansailor]

Originally Posted by Bruce Beard

Having spent my working life in the business of repairing European automobiles, I watched the evolution of electronic fuel systems.

I have heard plenty of horror stories about electronics failing and I have witnessed many misdiagnosed sensor and control unit replacements.

I have also seen scores of mechanical fuel system repairs that were mishandled.

The fact is that most people have little to no idea how to properly repair a Diesel engine of either mechanical injection or common rail type.

I discount the stories of people traveling with sensors and harness’s just like I discount the stories of mechanical systems never breaking.

I’d love to see some real statistics about reliability of modern diesel engines but I’d wager that like most things produced today, common rail fuel systems are at least as reliable (I’d bet probably more...) than anything built ever.

OK, there are always exceptions to a statement like the one I just made but in general, modern engine electronics are incredibly robust.

I do agree that the average sailor do not have the knowledge to repair mechanical or common rail engines. But it is much easier to find a professional in remote areas that knows how to repair a mechanical engine.

A friend of mine was stranded i Galapagos with a malfunctioning common rail diesel. There are plenty of fishing boats on Galapagos. No mechanic had the knowledge or tools to troubleshoot the common rail engine. Mechanic had to be flown in to Galapagos $$$$

[Sulaire]

Looks like the writing is on the wall anyway, yanmar europe only have 1 standard diesel engine in stock! All the rest are CR!

Beta is looking more and more attractive!

[malbert73]

I just installed a Beta this winter, choosing over Yanmar CR. Great engine.
Here’s another recent reason off a Hylas forum. yes, rare, but having a working engine would make this situation much better


Lightning Strike
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 12:54:24 PM »
Quote
All:

Our Hylas 54 was struck by lightning this last week. The strike was witnessed to have hit the top of the mast. At this preliminary stage, we have the expected damage: most electronics (chartplotter, autopilot, AIS, GPS, gauges), sat phone, solar controller, watermaker controls not functioning properly, all radios (SSB and VHF's) damaged, inverters damaged, engine controls grounded out, and a number of other more minor issues. Of note, we have a newer Yanmar common rail, electronic engine; for all us that are not in love with electronic engines, I can confirm lighting will indeed cause severe damage and take the engine out of commission. There does not appear to be any visible hull or rigging damage, however we have not hauled out yet, nor inspected the top of the mast.

I was curious if anyone else out there has had a lightning strike and can share what type of inspections and damages they encountered. We will be doing the haul out shortly to inspect bottom, and the insurer is considered pulling the mast. Any information, thoughts and recommendations from the community would be appreciated.

[daletournier]

I never thought about the lighting angle. I've met quite a few boats over the years that have suffered lightning strikes. That concern is enough for me to not want an electrity dependent engine.

[jimbunyard]

Yanmar 4JH45, common rail

Pressure pump.....2778.30 USD
Injector, each...… 1178.81 USD
ECU...…...…………...1523.34 Euro

Given the sophistication of corporate marketing agreements now-a-days, good luck finding 'price alternatives' or aftermarket suppliers.


Grandpa's reliable, reasonably economically repairable, completely adequate-for-the-job engine looks pretty good in comparison...

[ballvalve]

Manufacturers will probably have to all go CR if the emmissions police get their way, its probably just a question of time

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Personally, 30,000psi rail pressure scares the hell out of me, and sub micron clearances don't seem to fit well with third world fuel. But that's just me.

I thought the 30,000psi was a typo. A leak in that could cut an arm off.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by ballvalve

Manufacturers will probably have to all go CR if the emmissions police get their way, its probably just a question of time

Yup- one reason I got my beta while still possible [emoji3]

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I never thought about the lighting angle. I've met quite a few boats over the years that have suffered lightning strikes. That concern is enough for me to not want an electrity dependent engine.

Yup- if you’re coastal offshore and get struck during a squall even if you electronics it’s nice to have propulsion esp if rig is compromised by strike (prob very unlikely)

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I thought the 30,000psi was a typo. A leak in that could cut an arm off.

It’s really usually up to 30K.
And it’s only in the rail, or from the HP pump and rail. It would have to be a tiny leak to maintain pressure though at those kinds of pressures, the pump is a low volume one.
It’s coming guys, just like electronic ignition did, and I don’t miss points and condenser.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s really usually up to 30K.
And it’s only in the rail, or from the HP pump and rail. It would have to be a tiny leak to maintain pressure though at those kinds of pressures, the pump is a low volume one.
It’s coming guys, just like electronic ignition did, and I don’t miss points and condenser.

Yeah, but CD ignition came as a voluntary improvement to a troublesome existing technology. CR as a response to mandated emission control, and as a replacement for an extremely reliable technology is a bit different.

There are surely advantages to CR engines, but long term reliability in the yachting environment seems questionable. I hope that my Kubota sees me out!

Jim