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fstbttms · 29-12-2021, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

The thing is, Coppercoat is non-conductive. Check their website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

If that is the case ... there is no copper in it.
Is their advertising "sales puffery" ?

Oh, there's lots of copper in Coppercoat. It's just all encapsulated in epoxy. That being the case, it is non-conductive. It also means it is non-effective (as an anti fouling.)

David B · 29-12-2021, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupaia

If you haven't already done it read this first.

https://coppercoat.brucebalan.com/
We had similar poor experience. Now know more boats that have anti-fouled over it than are happy with it.

The fact that the vast majority like it, and a minority don't, tells me its down to reading application instructions.

The yard who did ours did a great job, and 9 years on, we are very happy - as are the ones we come across out there, but there is still a lot of mis-information. Came across a superyacht in Africa having the Coppercoat sanded to "reactivate it". There goes 5 years worth of service life!

Checking on other 'copper/epoxy' treatments, the manufacturers specify they need to be sanded annually. I guess it's like a ball point pen - just because someone calls it a 'Biro' doesn't meant it is!

David B · 29-12-2021, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Oh, there's lots of copper in Coppercoat. It's just all encapsulated in epoxy. That being the case, it is non-conductive. It also means it is non-effective (as an anti fouling.)

Yes, we all get the impression you don't like it, but your BS is pretty transparent, when you check with the people who actually use it.

Why would Copper need to be conductive to work as antifouling?

No, don't bother

David B · 29-12-2021, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

If that is the case ... there is no copper in it.
Is their advertising "sales puffery" ?
Is their claim of 99% pure copper in the paint false ?
What is you house wiring made of ?
Do you know of anyone that has had it work for 10yrs as they claim ?

From Coppercoat ...
"With the resin carrier insulating each copper particle, the final coating is inert and non conductive. Consequently Coppercoat does not cause electroloysis problems or cathodic decay in steel or aluminium craft. Sacrificial anodes should be fitted in the usual manner."

If the copper is completely insulated by the resin how can it possible change to cuprous oxide from contact with salt water ?
This make no sense.

Think about it - copper powder, mixed into epoxy resin. Epoxy resin is an insulator - around every one of those particles of copper.

Ask anyone who has actually used Coppercoat - there is a great thumping big bag of copper powder that you mix into the resin.

And in answer to your other question, because (reading their website again), you burnish the coating before immersion, to expose bright, shiny copper. After that, the resin, slowly dissolves away to expose more copper.

fstbttms · 29-12-2021, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

The fact that the vast majority like it, and a minority don't...

This is not "fact." It is merely your opinion, backed up by absolutely nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Why would Copper need to be conductive to work as antifouling?

Nobody in this thread (and certainly not me) inferred that the coating needed to be conductive to be an effective anti fouling. But the fact that the copper is encapsulated in epoxy means it is not free to adequately retard fouling on the hull (or anywhere else, like the running gear.)

I guess you didn't understand that part of my post.

boatpoker · 29-12-2021, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Yes, we all get the impression you don't like it, but your BS is pretty transparent, when you check with the people who actually use it.

Why would Copper need to be conductive to work as antifouling?

No, don't bother

Copper is conductive ...period !
Copper becomes an anti-fouling when it changes to cuprous oxide which it cannot do without exposure to seawater ... which it cannot do if encapsulated/insulated in epoxy ! Cuprous oxide is conductive !

Didn't you take any science classes in school ?

Fore and Aft · 29-12-2021, 20:55

My experience with copper coat is with a steel yacht and fiberglass yacht. The client with the fiberglass yacht thought it was a miracle product and never scrubbed the bottom. A year or so later he slipped her and the yacht was a reef. The other client with the steel yacht, used to use a Hookah and air palm sander to burnish the copper coat. He has been very happy with it, but now that he is getting closer to 70 he is switching to antifoul paint and regular slippings.
Cheers

David B · 29-12-2021, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Copper is conductive ...period !
Copper becomes an anti-fouling when it changes to cuprous oxide which it cannot do without exposure to seawater ... which it cannot do if encapsulated/insulated in epoxy ! Cuprous oxide is conductive !

Didn't you take any science classes in school ?

You need to read it again - I will say no more ......

Uncle Bob · 29-12-2021, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

To bond or not to bond is a separate issue and involves more than corrosion i.e. The North American standards see it as just as much of a grounding safety issue as a corrosion issue.

Contrary to your "other school of thought", the science is clear, simple. and undisputed in the US, Europe or anywhere else ... An anode cannot function without an electrical connection.

Please oh please show just where I have stated/suggested another school of thought. In my experience an anode attached to a fitting/shaft immersed in an electrolyte (salt water) does its job just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I haven't stated a position I'm simply stating the proven science that you appear to disagree with.

And, can you show me just where I disagree with the "proven science".

Martkimwat · 30-12-2021, 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Oh, there's lots of copper in Coppercoat. It's just all encapsulated in epoxy. That being the case, it is non-conductive. It also means it is non-effective (as an anti fouling.)

That is why the manufactures say you must abrade the surface after it is dry and before putting it in the water, to expose some of the copper. Thereafter, the resin is slowly ablative (it's a soft water based epoxy) and will in time expose more copper particles as the first layer is exhausted. Have any of you actually read the Coppercoat literature before making unfounded comments on CF? I have applied it myself to three different boats over the last 17 years. In places where fouling is light it has been recorded as lasting for up to 27 years, Unfortunately where I keep my boats, it is a nutrient rich rich soup and fouling is very heavy. In those areas, the company still gives a 7 year warranty. My present boat, I coated in 2016 and it is now due a top up. As an aside, I apply boot top which half covers the Coppercoat and the topsides GRP at the waterline. I have had no problems with paint adhesion of the boot top.

boatpoker · 30-12-2021, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Please oh please show just where I have stated/suggested another school of thought. In my experience an anode attached to a fitting/shaft immersed in an electrolyte (salt water) does its job just fine.

And, can you show me just where I disagree with the "proven science".

Oh Bobby, ya just can't help it. My third block in all these years

fstbttms · 30-12-2021, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

That is why the manufactures say you must abrade the surface after it is dry and before putting it in the water, to expose some of the copper. Thereafter, the resin is slowly ablative (it's a soft water based epoxy) and will in time expose more copper particles as the first layer is exhausted.

Yes, we understand how Coppercoat works. The problem is that it doesn’t work well. [emoji38]

fstbttms · 30-12-2021, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

We don't bother putting anything on our Flexofold - the mass of Coppercoat on the hull seems to keep the prop reasonably clean.

Still waiting to hear an explanation of how this guy's prop stays clean due to the non-toxic anti fouling coating he has on his hull.

boatpoker · 30-12-2021, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Still waiting to hear an explanation of how this guy's prop stays clean due to the non-toxic anti fouling coating he has on his hull.

You are banging your head on the wall trying to convince a couple of highly experienced docktalkers.

These are a couple of guys who believe that the epoxy that dissolves to expose more copper also believe that the incredible dissolving epoxy protects from osmosis. They will never admit that it is physically impossible to do both.