Drop-in Replacement for Ford Lehman

[_andi_]

Maybe do some research if these engines were in anything else besides boats. Difficult to say without the numbers... The 2711 for example seems to be put into trucks as well and probably generators/other industrial stuff as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Dorset/Dover_engine

If thats the case you can try to find a decent used one and transfer the "marine parts" from the old engine or ask around in classic car forums / call up industrial shops to get a wider choice of rebuilders.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by SailsWithFists

The boat is in a commercial boat yard - a very large one. My 85hp engine is a toy for these guys. Even if they would rebuild it, they are booked 18 months out. But like I said in the OP, I cannot seem to get shops to return my calls. Shops exist, but I guess they have more than enough work.





Broken piston, bent rod, possibly bent crank...I didn't do it, the previous owner did.

It is not that I want to get rid of it, I just do not like being robbed on a rebuild. Paying 65%++ of new is poor judgement.

That is not an overhaul.
An overhaul is disassembly of a running engine, cleaning and inspection of all parts and either machining to tolerances of parts that are beyond serviceable limits, or replacement.
What you have is way more expensive.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is not an overhaul.
An overhaul is disassembly of a running engine, cleaning and inspection of all parts and either machining to tolerances of parts that are beyond serviceable limits, or replacement.
What you have is way more expensive.

I never said "overhaul"

I used the correct term of "rebuild" and confirmed the requirements with Bomac. My point remains that $8800 is robbery for a rebuild of a 4 cylinder industrial engine (especially when $4500 buys a rebuild on an 8 cylinder industrial engine, and $5600 buys a new industrial 4 cylinder engine), and a $9k premium for a Beta is a high price to pay for for a tractor engine with a with wet exhaust and a few low priced add-ons and some red paint.

[olaf hart]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-D-S...-/121014562480

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by SailsWithFists

.............

In my mind the rebuild cost of the Lehman is robbery. ..............

You are not using the word "robbery" the way most folks understand it. "Robbery" is when someone threatens you and then takes something of yours. You have apparently gotten a quote and you think rebuilding an engine is not worth the price you were quoted.. That's your right but it's not in any sense "robbery".

I'm sure you can find a cheaper price for rebuilding your engine but will you get the same quality of work? The same quality parts? And rebuilt to the same standards?

If you decide to install a different brand of engine, that's your choice but I think keeping the same brand and model will make things simpler, probably cost the same when you're done with it and maintain the value of the boat better. I would be wary of a boat that's had the engine replaced with a different model. I would be worried about the workmanship and performance. I think others would feel the same.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You are not using the word "robbery" the way most folks understand it. "Robbery" is when someone threatens you and then takes something of yours. You have apparently gotten a quote and you think rebuilding an engine is not worth the price you were quoted.. That's your right but it's not in any sense "robbery".

You're right. I screwed up in my use of the English language. Robbery is the wrong word to use. Though I was using it as a figure of speech, maybe a better word would be kidnapping. (I would use shanghai, but that would be understating how I feel.)

Originally Posted by rwidman

I'm sure you can find a cheaper price for rebuilding your engine but will you get the same quality of work? The same quality parts? And rebuilt to the same standards?

Quality? Yes, I am a believer in quality. I expect the right parts and proper workmanship. But my professional experience says quality parts are less than $1600 retail, and man hours to complete the job is 26 hours. That does not equal $8800. The retail price of the parts and the shop labor rate IS the profit.

Originally Posted by rwidman

I would be wary of a boat that's had the engine replaced with a different model. I would be worried about the workmanship and performance. I think others would feel the same.

It's not like I am putting a Chevrolet engine into a Ford (even though hot rod builders do it all the time without anyone balking.) So am I to think that it is not OK to throw out a decades long discontinued engine (that is not running) and replace it with a modern, more fuel efficient, quieter model with a different name? I don't think that way.

"Workmanship and performance" of a reinstall? Replacing an engine is not rocket science. It is just basic mechanics. I think most businesses have a lot to lose if they do shoddy work. And longstanding businesses have proven customer satisfaction. It's not like I am not going to go hire a greasy guy hanging out under a tree playing dominoes, waiting for the next unsuspecting customer ask his advice. I am not sure what you mean by performance. Horsepower is horsepower and torque is torque. Otherwise performance of a marine engine is that it starts, runs, and stops reliably. I am not sure what other performance items there might be.

I sure am glad I don't worry much about what other people think of my choices, otherwise I would be living an unhappy miserable life and would not have started cruising and living aboard over 25 years ago.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by SailsWithFists

You're right. I screwed up in my use of the English language. Robbery is the wrong word to use. Though I was using it as a figure of speech, maybe a better word would be kidnapping. (I would use shanghai, but that would be understating how I feel.)



Quality? Yes, I am a believer in quality. I expect the right parts and proper workmanship. But my professional experience says quality parts are less than $1600 retail, and man hours to complete the job is 26 hours. That does not equal $8800. The retail price of the parts and the shop labor rate IS the profit.



It's not like I am putting a Chevrolet engine into a Ford (even though hot rod builders do it all the time without anyone balking.) So am I to think that it is not OK to throw out a decades long discontinued engine (that is not running) and replace it with a modern, more fuel efficient, quieter model with a different name? I don't think that way.

"Workmanship and performance" of a reinstall? Replacing an engine is not rocket science. It is just basic mechanics. I think most businesses have a lot to lose if they do shoddy work. And longstanding businesses have proven customer satisfaction. It's not like I am not going to go hire a greasy guy hanging out under a tree playing dominoes, waiting for the next unsuspecting customer ask his advice. I am not sure what you mean by performance. Horsepower is horsepower and torque is torque. Otherwise performance of a marine engine is that it starts, runs, and stops reliably. I am not sure what other performance items there might be.

I sure am glad I don't worry much about what other people think of my choices, otherwise I would be living an unhappy miserable life and would not have started cruising and living aboard over 25 years ago.

I should have figured out from your first response that you are the kind of person who argues with every suggestion that he doesn't agree with.

I'm sorry I wasted my time with you.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I should have figured out from your first response that you are the kind of person who argues with every suggestion that he doesn't agree with.

I'm sorry I wasted my time with you.

Hmmm...I do believe there were question marks in your post. It is my understanding that a question begs an answer (at least that is what my parents taught me.) So when I answered your questions in a manner you do not wish to accept, suddenly I am arguing? My ex-wife did the same thing to me.

I am sorry that you feel as if you wasted your time. I appreciate everyone's advice, but it is my choice to heed it or not. Conversations do not always go as we might like, but that is the nature of conversations.

[Lepke]

You have an easy to rebuild engine. The usual machining is the head and boring the block. If you suspect the crank, it should be checked out by a crank rebuilding company, but probably is ok. I've seen many engines with a bent rod and never had a bad crank, too. It's cheaper to ship a crank than the engine. If you can get parts, there has to be a engine machine shop that can do the head and block. Then all you need is a local mechanic that can put it together for you.
Recreational engines are often better rebuilt than new. Closer attention is paid to machining and assembly in rebuilding than in factory situations.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by Lepke

You have an easy to rebuild engine. The usual machining is the head and boring the block. If you suspect the crank, it should be checked out by a crank rebuilding company, but probably is ok. I've seen many engines with a bent rod and never had a bad crank, too. It's cheaper to ship a crank than the engine. If you can get parts, there has to be a engine machine shop that can do the head and block. Then all you need is a local mechanic that can put it together for you.
Recreational engines are often better rebuilt than new. Closer attention is paid to machining and assembly in rebuilding than in factory situations.

Thanks. I am still hopeful that I can find someone. But until I start getting returned calls and emails, I will continue to look for an affordable replacement.

[deblen]

Possibly look in N.B. for marine suppliers.

Used Marine and Industrial Diesel Engines For Sale

[olaf hart]

Your base engine is a ford truck engine from the UK.
I would be looking there for a replacement core engine, not the USA.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Your base engine is a ford truck engine from the UK.
I would be looking there for a replacement core engine, not the USA.

Good call!

[Zach]

This thread has a few more names to call for Lehman parts:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ld-144506.html


Just for my own clarity:

You are looking for a shop to do the rebuild, but will handle the reinstallation and alignment yourself?

Have you got a set of micrometers and a torque wrench?

How about a picture of the engine where she sits?

Zach

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by Zach

This thread has a few more names to call for Lehman parts:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ld-144506.html


Just for my own clarity:

You are looking for a shop to do the rebuild, but will handle the reinstallation and alignment yourself?

Have you got a set of micrometers and a torque wrench?

How about a picture of the engine where she sits?

Zach

Parts are not the issue here.

This started with the fact that so far, I have not been able to get anyone in Nova Scotia (where the boat lies) to return my calls or emails in regards to rebuilding this engine.

This led me back to the US for pricing for a rebuild. However, I have found the prices to be insanely high, at least double what should be customary, plus added shipping costs.

This has led me to consider repowering, hence the OP. The only suggestion so far was Beta Marine, which I also find to be overpriced considering the actual cost of the components.

I can R&R the engine/trans myself or do the repower myself. I have all the tools and experience, and the engine has full 360 degree easy access with a hatch directly overhead. Even if I could not do it myself, the boat is in a commercial boat yard with plenty of experience to do the R&R.