Electric Power a sobering story

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Idealism and purposly false prediction hits Reality now, same with EVs....

Easy there. I'm extremely happy with my EV, as are many people who have them.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Easy there. I'm extremely happy with my EV, as are many people who have them.

Wait till they tell you when to charge and when to drive...also spending long times inside an MRT on 4 wheels is not healthy...
I drive when I want, how long I want and noone can ever block when I am allowed to drive or if I said something not welcomed and they simply shut your car down...spend some time in Korea and it will open your eyes what this EV stuff is really about....
But you will all learn as the guy did too....and many many who refuse to buy an EV....I had a twizzy to get from house to the workshop 3km away but that was not connected anywhere like EVs today, just a battery charger for the battery but not big electronics like the EV BS today....

[sailorxyz]

This story is basically about stupidity. If you install an electric motor in a non waterproof and uninsulated box, without ventilation, leave it through a UK winter, while never bothering to look at it or open the box because it is "maintenance free" then you can expect what this guy got. Even a diesel is not going to be happy.


The real story is the stupidity of the owner, not the suitability of electric propulsion. I've had an ePropulsion POD Drive 6Kw for 2 years now and have had zero issues.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by Statistical

That is a crazy amount of corrosion for two years no wonder the motor died. The question is was this an installation issue in which case Oceanvolt is at fault for certifying it or are all Oceanvolt motors that terrible at handling even minor dampness when properly installed.

I do wonder about the quote "i.e. in engine compartment over the bilge" because all electric motors are installed in engine compartments and in essentially all boats that is located over the bilge. Was that a direct quote or was just the first part "Oceanvolt withdrew its support under warranty because of how the electric motor had been installed".

There is installing in engine compartment such that it is protected from elements and seawater and there is installing in engine compartment where it is essentially exposed. The level of corrosion is massive. Was there some kind of leak which was spraying salt water into the engine compartment?

No, if you look closely you can see (from the different shades of white surfaces), that a cover, or cowl has been removed, to allow access to the motor.
What Oceanvolt seem to be saying is that the motor has been installed over a "bilge sump", i.e. a sump designed to allow water to collect, where it can be pumped out by the bilge pump, indeed they mention it in their reply. It's quite likely that water in this area got splashed up into the motor, which incidentally has a similar appearance due to it being doused with salt water by a hose coming loose from my heat exchanger.

IMHO the motor would have been fine if the author had only opted to have it fitted in the original engine compartment.

[SpiritofGlenans]

To comment particularly on the linked article, I would ask why the author needed an inboard engine/motor in such a small boat. It's only seven metres LOA, and could be handily sailed alongside without need of mechanical assistance, particularly as the author purports to be an expert sailor, having written books on sail trimming, etc. As for fear of lee shores, etc, a pair of oars is much more economical, environmentally friendly and reliable form of propulsion, given the size of the boat.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Easy there. I'm extremely happy with my EV, as are many people who have them.

Me too. I've had my boat converted to electric propulsion since 2008 and would never go back to having a diesel onboard. Plus I like the smell of clean instead of diesel, oil and antifreeze.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Except this isn't a sealed motor you can see the windings in the shot. The same salt spray which corroded the frame was being sprayed into the copper windings. Now one could argue this is a poor design and it should be sealed but in that case it should probably be water cooled which is certainly one viewpoint. However alternators on marine vehicles are usually open cooled with exposed windings and not sealed water cooled models the expectation is that they will be mounted where not exposed to raw water spray. If you put an alternator in the same conditions as here it would likewise be scrap in a year or two.

Oceanvolt though despite an early start has never really impressed me. The prices are very high so I can get consumer thinking this is a hand off zero issue turn key solution. In reality you are getting what appears to be hobbyist level integration at luxury prices.

It was not salt spray, as such, but water splashing up from the sump where the bilge pump was located, inside a GRP cover or cowling.

He was midled by his "Get what you pay for " mentality and had more money than sense.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Wait till they tell you when to charge and when to drive...also spending long times inside an MRT on 4 wheels is not healthy...
I drive when I want, how long I want and noone can ever block when I am allowed to drive or if I said something not welcomed and they simply shut your car down...spend some time in Korea and it will open your eyes what this EV stuff is really about....
But you will all learn as the guy did too....and many many who refuse to buy an EV....I had a twizzy to get from house to the workshop 3km away but that was not connected anywhere like EVs today, just a battery charger for the battery but not big electronics like the EV BS today....

Please elaborate.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by paul2884

I assume Ocean Volt sold this as a replacement for the old derv engine. The old engine presumably lasted for several decades, the "replacement" didn’t last very well in the same location in the same conditions.

Perhaps it should not be sold as a “replacement” but sold as an alternative IF you can ensure the environment it is going to be installed in is dry/well-ventilated etc. it is not always a replacement for a diesel engine.

As for paying for an inspection from the manufacturers to guarantee the installation, sounds like it might be just an extra charge for the motor and not a real inspection!

No the author opted to have the motor installed over a pool of water, rather than in the original engine space, which was presumably perfectly dry and weatherproof.

[PippaB]

Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans

No the author opted to have the motor installed over a pool of water, rather than in the original engine space, which was presumably perfectly dry and weatherproof.

The author said:

There is only one place where the electric motor could have been installed on my Tofinou: in the engine compartment where the old diesel engine had lived.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

Very strange story....

Where did you read that he converted back to a diesel?

This motor has seen some serious salt water. any motor/engine would not fare well with that. Why did he allow it get to such a state - did he not ever inspect the engine? I guess he took the no maintenance very literally

Why didn't he go with a pod motor instead, when he does not have a suitable engine room?

Who would care about regen on a daysailer like this?
Even worse, who would even consider slowing such a lovely sailboat down with regen - it's not like it has to cross oceans under power.

Quote: "Firstly, how could the error prevent the electric motor from running?"
Seriously? Look up Volvo Penta diesels having errors in their control box

This has very little to do with the type of energy that powers the boat, but everything to do with poor choices.

Very weird story, one could suspect that someone has an agenda to push

Did you not read he OP? It's in the second line:
"Just read an article about a boat that was converted to electric and then back to diesel"
Also, he does actually have a suitable engine space, from which the original diesel was removed. He just opted not to put it there, for aesthetic reasons, apparently.

[PippaB]

Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans

Did you not read he OP? It's in the second line:
"Just read an article about a boat that was converted to electric and then back to diesel"
Also, he does actually have a suitable engine space, from which the original diesel was removed. He just opted not to put it there, for aesthetic reasons, apparently.

And did you not read the article linked in the OP? As stated in the article, the electric motor system was installed in the same space that formerly housed the diesel engine.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans

Did you not read he OP? It's in the second line:
"Just read an article about a boat that was converted to electric and then back to diesel"
Also, he does actually have a suitable engine space, from which the original diesel was removed. He just opted not to put it there, for aesthetic reasons, apparently.

Your belief there is some other engine room is not supported by the article. For these type of day sailors it isn't uncommon for the enigne to be installed on deck under a housing. The old engine was per the article installed exactly where the new electric motor was.

It is still unsuitable although with a bit of modification it probably could have been made suitable. No modification was done the motor was just plunked right down exposed to the elements. That housing that fits over the motor was unlikely a water tight seal.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by mbianka

Me too. I've had my boat converted to electric propulsion since 2008 and would never go back to having a diesel onboard. Plus I like the smell of clean instead of diesel, oil and antifreeze.

A long term user with real experience! A couple questions, if you can. I'm not a believer, in part because I think most people sail like me, where it is a complete fail (my last weekend out, I motored 50% of the 40 miles to my destination, and then all of the 40 miles home (winds were under 5kts, behind us, for the 60 miles we motored). With EP, that wouldn't have been fun - but we would have just stayed home). But I'm only a hesitant skeptic, and there are many uses where I think it probably works very well.

* How long/heavy is your boat? Electric is far more viable on boats under 25'.
* How often do you anchor out overnight? EP works much better if you have shore power each night.
* How often do you go more than a week without shore power? My longest was 60 days of liveaboard cruising (over 1,000nm in that time) without a single night of shorepower.
* Your installation is 16 years old. How much have you spent on replacement batteries so far (if any)? And how did that compare to your diesel consumption?
* EP is still a new technology, filled with advances. it may not have much (if any) "maintenance" but there is surely a temptation to upgrade or even wholesale replace every decade or so (even if it is just as good as the day it was installed, the upgrade can make sense -- just like a 10 year old computer). What upgrades/replacements have you needed?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

A long term user with real experience! A couple questions, if you can. I'm not a believer, in part because I think most people sail like me, where it is a complete fail (my last weekend out, I motored 50% of the 40 miles to my destination, and then all of the 40 miles home (winds were under 5kts, behind us, for the 60 miles we motored). With EP, that wouldn't have been fun - but we would have just stayed home). But I'm only a hesitant skeptic, and there are many uses where I think it probably works very well.

* How long/heavy is your boat? Electric is far more viable on boats under 25'.
* How often do you anchor out overnight? EP works much better if you have shore power each night.
* How often do you go more than a week without shore power? My longest was 60 days of liveaboard cruising (over 1,000nm in that time) without a single night of shorepower.
* Your installation is 16 years old. How much have you spent on replacement batteries so far (if any)? And how did that compare to your diesel consumption?
* EP is still a new technology, filled with advances. it may not have much (if any) "maintenance" but there is surely a temptation to upgrade or even wholesale replace every decade or so (even if it is just as good as the day it was installed, the upgrade can make sense -- just like a 10 year old computer). What upgrades/replacements have you needed?

Sailing style is definitely a factor. I know a few sailors that would have to be pretty darn desperate to do that much motoring. In most cases, they'd just wait for better wind whether motoring was an option or not.