Etiquette for a bad outboard repair shop?

[a64pilot]

White gas I remember from about 40 years ago was sold at Amaco stations and was as clear as water, not reddish like normal leaded gas was back then, then of course the high octane stuff was called "Ethyl" not premium as it was the high level of Tetraethyl lead that made it high octane

Coleman fuel is Naptha, and is exceptionally low in octane, I ran out in my Jeep once and put in a Gl of Coleman fuel to get to the gas station, worked, but rattled like Hell, didn't suffer any damage from the apparent detonation but was only for a very short time.


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[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

White gas I remember from about 40 years ago was sold at Amaco stations and was as clear as water, not reddish like normal leaded gas was back then, then of course the high octane stuff was called "Ethyl" not premium as it was the high level of Tetraethyl lead that made it high octane

Coleman fuel is Naptha, and is exceptionally low in octane, I ran out in my Jeep once and put in a Gl of Coleman fuel to get to the gas station, worked, but rattled like Hell, didn't suffer any damage from the apparent detonation but was only for a very short time.


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I had to run a 68 Plymouth on ethyl alcohol once. Knocked like hell but got me to a gas station. And thanks for the reminder that Coleman fuel is Naptha based not white gas.

[GrahamHO]

A guy I know runs a commercial vessel with twin outboards. They have a 3 year warranty and he trades them for new motors after 3 years. They are therefore always under warranty and he gets a good trade for his 3 year old motors.

I've always thought that's a good principle but I just hang on to mine and fix them but eventually they just need replacing and the resale on the old troublesome motor is not much. Maybe doing the replacement every 3 years is not much more expensive.

[esarratt]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This is a textbook example of when it's time to DIY.
Really it's not that hard, little outboards aren't even heavy and you don't even get sweaty or dirty working on them.

I agree.

I have a friend who took a course on small engine repair at a local community college for $80 (?). After that he rebuilt 5hp Johnson motor by himself.

You can get shop manuals for free a lot of times on the internet and buying them is worth it if you have to.

Lots of pictures and questions posted to this website can help where you get stumped.

I am currently repairing a 2-cylinder diesel engine in my boat--lots of patience and reading and I'll have it licked (my background is mental health).

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by Captain Bob

I work for a Honda/Yamaha outboard repair service and have previously owned a marine engine repair shop. If you use gasoline that contains ethanol, it will probably be the reason that your outboard won't idle. The ethanol combines with water (condensation in the tank) and create a third substance that clogs carbs and fuel components. It will actually etch and destroy the metal surfaces inside the carb. A carb rebuild by a competent mechanic takes at least an hour or about the price of a new carb. We recommend replacement and also remind the customer to drain the fuel system when not in use. This EPA mandated ethanol requirement has created huge and expensive problems in the marine industry as well as other small motor applications.

That's what I was going to say. Our outboard dealer here won't warranty anything that has been run on ethanol.

Don't use the stuff I've had to do carb cleanouts too many times and the Honda 100 (10hp) and 7.5 are notorious for needing clean, non-ethanol fuel to keep on idling right.

[northoceanbeach]

I got the motor back. I don't feel overcharged. It's ethanol that is at fault, not these shops.

They charged for two hours of labor but said they put more. In that time they had to take off the lower unit cover to clear out the pisser of salt so water flows.

They replaced the impeller.

They pulled a used starter off an abandoned similar motor and put it on mine, he shower me, one of the pawls that engages was broken off, he said new this was an expensive part. It's basically the top part directly under the splash hood that houses the starter cable. They cleaned out the carb.

They charged me $50 for the used starter and a little bit for the impeller.

He put the motor in the tank and showed me how it runs. It sounds good, he said it sounds good, it just won't idle. He said maybe after I run it for a while it will clean itself out. He said sometimes people bring a clogged carb in and they blow on it and it works again and they barely know whT they did and other time hey tear it apart over and over and it stays clogged.

[zedpassway]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

I got the motor back. I don't feel overcharged. It's ethanol that is at fault, not these shops.

Turn the idle up; change to ethanol free gas; put SEAFOAM or Blue Stabil in the gas. But Seafoam and Blue Stabil will not fix ethanol damage. You have to find ethanol free gas.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

My dinghy outboard was not idling without the choke out so I took it to an outboard repair shop. It also was not peeing water, they said that they swapped the impeller and fixed that, they think, if mine is the one they are thinking of. Well a month later they still haven't fixed it. They said they've spent hours trying to get it to work and it might need a new carburetor, they don't really remember which one was mine and will call me tomorrow.(they never call back)

What would be the best way to get it back without being overcharged? I don't think they really know what they are doing and I need my engine, it's been a month. They initially did tell me they were busy but said one and a half to two weeks.

I'm worried they will try to charge me hundreds of dollars for labor when they weren't able to resolve the problem.

Physically be on site until they give you your outboard back or fix it. Squeaky wheel gets the oil as another poster mentioned.

You should be able to identify your outboard visually and by serial number.

If they cant keep track of your property and fix what are basic repairs then they are incompetent.

You also need to get a quote in writing. That quote might contain obtain approval to repair x after they have made an assessment. I would expect to pay for that assessment if I dont let them do the repair work. Often they will absorb the assessment cost if they get the repair work. Not always.

Verbal contracts are valid in most places.



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[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

I got the motor back. I don't feel overcharged. It's ethanol that is at fault, not these shops.

They charged for two hours of labor but said they put more. In that time they had to take off the lower unit cover to clear out the pisser of salt so water flows.

They replaced the impeller.

They pulled a used starter off an abandoned similar motor and put it on mine, he shower me, one of the pawls that engages was broken off, he said new this was an expensive part. It's basically the top part directly under the splash hood that houses the starter cable. They cleaned out the carb.

They charged me $50 for the used starter and a little bit for the impeller.

He put the motor in the tank and showed me how it runs. It sounds good, he said it sounds good, it just won't idle. He said maybe after I run it for a while it will clean itself out. He said sometimes people bring a clogged carb in and they blow on it and it works again and they barely know whT they did and other time hey tear it apart over and over and it stays clogged.

If you can slow the speed down enough to shift then you should be fine. Just stick it in neutral when you have to go slow. The other option would be to get a new carb and install it yourself.

The reason many of us have started doing all repairs ourselves is that mechanics have to charge for their time because they have overhead. Many don't charge over and above a fair amount and those are the guys that you might want to find. I know why they charge so much for changing seals in the bottom end of a saltwater engine because I've done it twice on my small engines and it is a "bear."

[Scout 30]

I've had 2 Hondas. The last time I talked to the dealer they said they had quit cleaning these carbs. By the time you pay for the labor it's cheaper to just replace it & it doesn't work anyway. You can buy one from Boats.net for about $130. It's easy to replace & once you do it'll run like a new motor. Don't live with the tragedy of a poorly running motor. You're so close, just take the next step & believe in yourself. I know you can do it.

[Capt Gill]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I've had 2 Hondas. The last time I talked to the dealer they said they had quit cleaning these carbs. By the time you pay for the labor it's cheaper to just replace it & it doesn't work anyway. You can buy one from Boats.net for about $130. It's easy to replace & once you do it'll run like a new motor. Don't live with the tragedy of a poorly running motor. You're so close, just take the next step & believe in yourself. I know you can do it.

John,there are many reasons why some do their own repairs but, " mechanics have to charge for their time because they have overhead",is not one of them. In order to stay in business,unless it's a hobby or charity,overhead expenses need to be billed to the customer, been that way for centuries.
Your statement, "Many don't charge over and above a fair amount and those are the guys that you might want to find",leaves open the question ,what is a fair amount ?How would you figure that ?
Please correct me if I have misread you(wouldn't be the first time,sometimes embarrassing so) and apologies will follow.
Jack

[northoceanbeach]

Really? Even after they cleaned the carb, you think if I buy a new one it will work? I can do that. I want a good running outboard.

I tried it out today and went wprobably 3 miles each way. Explored a bit, played around. I have no idea where I will stow this super heavy thing while sailing but I don't think I can go to a little light 2.5 or something. I like to plane. The dinghy is fun.

So I order a new carb, but I got a can of carb spray. I'll try that first, then buy new when the carb spray doesn't work, which it won't.

It does need the last step fixed. The throttle is very sensitive. Not a lot of room between fast and slow. I have to pull out the choke, pull starter, push in choke, pull starter. Then turn throttle down super quick so it doesn't run at full throttle. So once it's down, but not all the way, forward quick and then go!

It pees good. It sounds good running. It would be a shame to jam it into gear at high rpms over and over and hurt something.

I'm glad I'm close. I looked at new eights. Phew! Expensive. I don't know they apwere THAT much.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by Capt Gill

John,there are many reasons why some do their own repairs but, " mechanics have to charge for their time because they have overhead",is not one of them. In order to stay in business,unless it's a hobby or charity,overhead expenses need to be billed to the customer, been that way for centuries.
Your statement, "Many don't charge over and above a fair amount and those are the guys that you might want to find",leaves open the question ,what is a fair amount ?How would you figure that ?
Please correct me if I have misread you(wouldn't be the first time,sometimes embarrassing so) and apologies will follow.
Jack

Aloha Captain Gill,
You did misread what I stated. Please read it again. Mechanics have to charge for their time. You as a do it yourselfer don't. That's why its cheaper to do your own fixing (sometimes if you don't screw it up). I also said that some charge more than others for their time. Find the ones who are more reasonable. I might add "and do a good job."
I think you are saying the same thing as what I stated. Sometimes we can't read a tone of voice.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

Really? Even after they cleaned the carb, you think if I buy a new one it will work? I can do that. I want a good running outboard.

I tried it out today and went wprobably 3 miles each way. Explored a bit, played around. I have no idea where I will stow this super heavy thing while sailing but I don't think I can go to a little light 2.5 or something. I like to plane. The dinghy is fun.

So I order a new carb, but I got a can of carb spray. I'll try that first, then buy new when the carb spray doesn't work, which it won't.

It does need the last step fixed. The throttle is very sensitive. Not a lot of room between fast and slow. I have to pull out the choke, pull starter, push in choke, pull starter. Then turn throttle down super quick so it doesn't run at full throttle. So once it's down, but not all the way, forward quick and then go!

It pees good. It sounds good running. It would be a shame to jam it into gear at high rpms over and over and hurt something.

I'm glad I'm close. I looked at new eights. Phew! Expensive. I don't know they apwere THAT much.

If you are worried about the weight (Honda 7.5 are heavy) find an old two stroke 6 Evinrude or Johnson and learn how to fix it. They are much lighter and will perform just as well. They do use more fuel though and from what I understand you can't buy a new one on the mainland.
Two strokes can be stored anywhere in any position. 4 strokes have to be placed only on one side.

[roygee]

That is because you have already done 6 days work @ my pace; and you are plumb tuckered out mentally and physically. AT that point take a real beer break and just unlaX. Ha [Regarding the 6 beer = 6 jobs comment]