Feel like I'm flipping a coin - rebuild or repower

[puffcard]

Raw water cooled engine is a limited service engine.

I just pulled the switch on ordering a new motor. My current motor 1979 Westerbeke 50 (41hp) that I rebuilt 13 years ago, runs great, but my confidence is waning. In the last year I have put $3,800 into the beast and that's me doing most of the work. I'm at the point of getting older, working on the beast is not getting any easier. If I keep her I would need to spend another couple grand. We're traveling further during the winters and it's not that fun sailing up Davis Channel to Rock Sound at 3 in the morning. I'm keeping the boat several more years, got the funds why not pull the switch. So you weigh the costs, where you using the boat, how long you keeping the boat, and if you you have confidence in your motor? That's the big question.

[svseachange]

Why not delay your decision until you are just about to leave the US?

It takes time to gain confidence in engines you are not familiar with and sometimes new engines have new problems. Getting parts for any engine is hard in the Bahamas. It doesn't matter whether it a brand new or old Yanmar. Good old engines can be easier to fix in remote places.

It seems to me too many people get sold new engines when their old ones were perfectly OK. If it is not broke, don't fix it. Our Volvo is 35 years old and runs better, and is easier to maintain than the relatively new Yanmar in our last cruising boat. Our old engine is loud but we only run it when we are going places so that's not a big concern.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

We have a Yanmar YSB12 on our 1977 Bristol 29.9 which we've owned since August, 2015. We don't have any idea how the prior owners took care of the engine (save for the fact that the zinc clearly hadn't been replaced in a while), but it has run like a champ so far. I do believe that the boat has been in the Northeast it's entire life (so 6 month sailing season, max).

In September, 2018 we are cutting the lines and going cruising. We'll be heading down the ICW and down into the Caribbean, and then see where want to go from there. This is a few years earlier than we had planned, so we are eyeing every purchase very carefully. Before moving up our departure date we had planned on getting a new engine (Beta or Yanmar, 16 hp), but now we're not so sure.

The idea behind getting a new engine was because it would (presumably) be more reliable, lighter, and quieter (the single cylinder YSB12 is LOUD). We didn't want to find ourselves in a position where the old engine left us stranded in some remote place, unable to find a part that is no longer in existence. But again, the engine has been so reliable - maybe it could go for another ten years or more? We are the type of people who will wait for the wind to shift vs. motoring somewhere, so it's not like we're planning to use it all day every day for months on end (except for the trip down the ICW).

We have a mechanic who comes highly recommended, and we were thinking of calling him and having him give the engine a thorough going-over, replacing parts that look suspect, and seeing what he has to say about it. Of course there's no guarantee that it won't give up the ghost the day after the mechanic does this. Frankly at this point it doesn't feel much better than simply flipping a coin.

Any thoughts, opinions, or personal experience would be welcome.

There are no right or wrong answers to this question, but I will throw in my two cents with those who have said that if it starts and runs well, and if the most critical parts are available, leave it be.

A fantastic inventory of parts including a spare head, injector, exhaust manifold, starter, full gasket set, all pumps, will cost a small fraction of the cost of repowering.

I might invest some time pulling it apart myself and freshening it up, clean out cooling passage, replacing seals and gauges, rings and bearings, lap valves, etc. Send the injector out for service. Once you've had it apart yourself, you'll have confidence that you can fix anything which might arise later.

It's exceptionally rare for a diesel engine to just stop working for any reason other than fuel or cooling. If it starts well it has good compression and is most likely in good overall shape.

Don't forget to pay attention to fuel, especially the tank. A good scrub out before leaving, and add excellent filtration, will helps save you from problems which are far more common than failure of internal parts of the engine.

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by markwesti

I like the blog. CThoops . That's interesting about the cracked washer , I assume you are talking about the filter canister that bolts to the engine that holds the small filter . I once had a cracked washer but it was the one on the banjo fitting to the injector .

Thanks! Yes, I believe it was the small filter - Mr. cthoops spoke to the mechanic so I don't exactly remember, but that sounds right.

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Before you decide I'd talk to Joe DeMers, the owner of Sound Marine Diesel. He is a Beta dealer & very helpful. We ran a YSM 8 for years &, like your motor, was raw water cooled. Running saltwater through your block is always troubling & considering a new Beta is prudent. As has been noted previously some of the new Diesels are computer controlled common rail engines. I would avoid them. Betas are still simple mechanically controlled engines & are known to be very reliable. The ugly truth about cruising is that sailboats are in fact motorsailers & cruisers often motor more than they sail. A good reliable diesel will make the journey much more enjoyable & a lot less stressful. Plus, when you sell the boat it'll be worth considerably more so you'll get "some" of the cost of repowering back.

Welcome to Sound Marine Diesel

We've talked to Joe a few times at the local boat shows and have been talking to him about this. Good to hear your thoughts on his service.


Update: After thinking about our options - discussions made much more valuable by all of the input on this board - we have decided to have a Beta 16 installed this offseason.

What really clinched it for us was knowing that if we didn't do it now, we'd simply be setting that money aside for the likely possibility that we'd have to do it later. In other words, it's not like we'd suddenly have a lot of money to purchase other things with (that would only happen if we swallowed the anchor without having to replace it).

By installing it this offseason rather than wait until we are forced to, we can do it on our time frame, in a place that we know has an excellent reputation, and we can use next season to break it in and get comfortable before we head out in September.

We'll never know if the Yanmar would have lasted for another twenty years, but that's the chance we take. In the meantime we will have a quieter, more efficient engine (without any computer parts) that we should be able to take care of as needed.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.

[Scout 30]

I think you made the right decision in this case. You'll have a smoother quieter more reliable engine, better electricity production and a little more power which will come in handy when fighting a strong headwind. Plus now you can add a hot water heater!

[jmschmidt]

If it is a USCG documented US Flag vessel get an abstract of title from the National Maritime Center, it may show where the boat has been as well as the prior owners.

[hpeer]

I see you made a decision. Good for you. I just wanted to share our experience which is similar but a bit different.

Our small boat has a salt water cooled Volvo MD7. The engine was completly rebuilt just before we bought the boat. I think (hope) the rebuild was done well but I did fineness several problems in the reinstall that caused me heartache. The water manifolds need service to keep the passages open. I can not buy an exhaust riser for any reasonable cost and had to make my own. The engine is 2 cylinders and relatively heavy and large. Other than that the engine is a champ. Starts right away and runs reliably.

I looked at Betas and Nanns. There is the cost to purchase and install the motor. But also there are additional costs. The Volvo is a left hand engine, I have to replace the prop. The exhaust is on the starboard side, new engines are on the port side, rerouted the exhaust. Then there are the mounts that may need to be moved.

I found an old MD7 with transmission for $250. Sitting in the basement now. I may get that rebuilt, or just keep it as a spare to Scavange parts from. I'm lucky it has the same fuel pump as my existing motor. If my existing motor blew, I could have this spare rebuilt and then drop it in. As a direct replacement that's something I can do myself in a few days. Getting the motor there is another matter.

There are Diesel engine dealers who rebuild these guys and sell them on the internet. I think you may find a big difference between a 1 cylinder and 2 cylinder engine in terms of noise and vibration. That would be a considerable consideration for me.

Just my few thoughts on my experience.

[StuartWeibel]

Hi,
I found this post because I'm on the cusp of a similar decision, with rather more urgency.

My 1GM10 Yanmar, 22 years old, well-kept (I thought), and dependable (I thought) blew its rings (I think) in the first 4 hours of a 6 week cruise around Vancouver Island. The disappointment of losing the summer's adventure is substantially mitigated by my horrific thoughts of how much worse it could have been.

Monday I will start taking the engine apart to see how bad the damage was, and whether I even have a choice (rebuild or re-power).

I didn't see this coming at all... engine had been running well, and I've had it 7 years, so I thought I knew it well enough. Now my confidence is substantially shaken, and my plans for future trips are colored by clouds of blue and brown smoke spewing from my exhaust.

What I want to do is buy a Beta Marine 14, but of course the expense is substantial (I'm an ambitious cruiser of modest means).

The extra power of the Beta 14 is also appealing to me, but the central theme is confidence in the engine and knowledge of its entire maintenance history.

fair winds
stu
master and slave to s/v Ripple
S/V Ripple

[UNCIVILIZED]

This thread has enough good stuff in it that it feels like it should be a sticky. Both just on engines, & as part of one on boat buying.
Moderator, Moderator, Moderator, Anyone, Moderator (Beuler)?

[Tricolor]

As a retired marine engineer, who love the old technologie, i more than agree with your disicion to re-power. Old is not always better....

I respect your choise for the Beta Marine although on a major investment i personaly went for the Yanmar 2GM20.

[oldcal46skipper]

Getting parts can be an issue, even in the USA. We have had to wait over a month to get a head gasket for a yanmar 1GM and then it was $60.

We do not work on yanmars due to the difficulty getting parts.

The Betas are Kubota tractor engines marinized, parts are readily available as Kubota is the leading small diesel engine in the world.

Tom

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper

Getting parts can be an issue, even in the USA. We have had to wait over a month to get a head gasket for a yanmar 1GM and then it was $60.

We do not work on yanmars due to the difficulty getting parts.

The Betas are Kubota tractor engines marinized, parts are readily available as Kubota is the leading small diesel engine in the world.

Tom

Good to be aware of.... I speak from the European perspective!

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by StuartWeibel

Hi,
I found this post because I'm on the cusp of a similar decision, with rather more urgency.

My 1GM10 Yanmar, 22 years old, well-kept (I thought), and dependable (I thought) blew its rings (I think) in the first 4 hours of a 6 week cruise around Vancouver Island. The disappointment of losing the summer's adventure is substantially mitigated by my horrific thoughts of how much worse it could have been.

Monday I will start taking the engine apart to see how bad the damage was, and whether I even have a choice (rebuild or re-power).

I didn't see this coming at all... engine had been running well, and I've had it 7 years, so I thought I knew it well enough. Now my confidence is substantially shaken, and my plans for future trips are colored by clouds of blue and brown smoke spewing from my exhaust.

What I want to do is buy a Beta Marine 14, but of course the expense is substantial (I'm an ambitious cruiser of modest means).

The extra power of the Beta 14 is also appealing to me, but the central theme is confidence in the engine and knowledge of its entire maintenance history.

fair winds
stu
master and slave to s/v Ripple
S/V Ripple

Beautiful boat!! It's easy to see why you are so dedicated/consumed by her.

If you do keep the engine, I'd replace the elbow if it has not been replaced already. They corrode from the inside out and may look perfectly good on the outside. Really just a long cycle maintenance item.

One thing you have going for you is the small size and weight of the motor you have, and the replacement should you go that route. Changing the engine bed supports would be an issue but I suspect you have the skills to do that yourself. Proper alignment is the key.

No harm in removing the head and doing a detail inspection. The integrity of the cooling passages (oil and water) is very important from what I know.

Good luck. Hope to see you on the water around here.

[Elie]

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper

Getting parts can be an issue, even in the USA. We have had to wait over a month to get a head gasket for a yanmar 1GM and then it was $60.

We do not work on yanmars due to the difficulty getting parts.

The Betas are Kubota tractor engines marinized, parts are readily available as Kubota is the leading small diesel engine in the world.

Tom

That is true!. In fact, most of the parts of these engine comme often from suprising sources. For exemple, the Perkins maerine diesel are the same as the one used in many other commercial, industrial and agricultural applications and therefore commons and readily available. I discoverd that my Volvo diesel engine was in fact a Perkins Prima,originaly from a British Sherpa gazoline engine tranformed by Perkins into a diesel Perkins Prima, 50, 60, 80T and sold as Rover and Austin Montego diuesel cars, Allis Chalmer tractors, John Deer, Volvo Penta(MD22) and probably many other suppliers for generators, pumps, ect..
I believe that even Yanmar has many 'terrestrial applications', and share a lots of blocs, parts, etc, with Cubota engines. Seaching for such links may widen substantially the part seach.

[exMaggieDrum]

You probably already have but I found several google results on rebuilding the 1GM10, including discussions on finding parts. I just searched for "Yanmar 1GM10".