Feel like I'm flipping a coin - rebuild or repower

[roverhi]

Yanmar is one of the major mfg's of small tractors and Diesel engines in the world. They are painted green and sold as John Deere's in the US and painted red and sold under their own name elsewhere. Yanmar is about the only mfg of engines doing their own marine conversion. Vetus, Volvo, Perkins, Beta, and even Yanmar in some of their larger engines buy them from industrial engine mfg and add the heat exchangers, etc that make them 'marine'. FWIW, understand the Prima engines are made by Mitsubishi. If you can cross reference the particular engine to a Yanmar or JD tractor or other manufacturers, you can source parts at your local tractor store.

You've made the decision on your boat. If it was me would stick with the old Yanmar till it died then replace with a new engine if you didn't want tackle a rebuild. Your boat is small and maneuverable enough that you can sail it up to a marina and tow it into a slip with a row boat or use your dinghy engine. You might be inconvenienced if it dies but BIG BUCKS ahead if it lives. We could have stayed out cruising for two years longer for what your engine replacement is going to cost. Economically, you'll only recover a small portion of the cost of the new engine when it comes time to sell. If you have the money for a new engine, put it in a short term CD and roll it over till needed.

Originally Posted by Elie

That is true!. In fact, most of the parts of these engine comme often from suprising sources. For exemple, the Perkins maerine diesel are the same as the one used in many other commercial, industrial and agricultural applications and therefore commons and readily available. I discoverd that my Volvo diesel engine was in fact a Perkins Prima,originaly from a British Sherpa gazoline engine tranformed by Perkins into a diesel Perkins Prima, 50, 60, 80T and sold as Rover and Austin Montego diuesel cars, Allis Chalmer tractors, John Deer, Volvo Penta(MD22) and probably many other suppliers for generators, pumps, ect..
I believe that even Yanmar has many 'terrestrial applications', and share a lots of blocs, parts, etc, with Cubota engines. Seaching for such links may widen substantially the part seach.

[Suijin]

I was in a similar position when I bought my boat. 30 year old Universal 5444, no hour meter, rust on the engine. I went in with the expectation I would replace it, but ran fine and has run strong for five years. Not so long ago in my way down the ICW I stopped by Beta and dropped in on Stanley who was putting an engine together and chatted for awhile and it wet my appetite again for a new engine with all those shiny red motors gleaming around me.

Back at the dock, I had a mechanic aboard working on an alignment issue. He does a ton of repowers and I casually mentioned that I was considering one. He snorted "All this engine needs is a can of gold paint. Don't even consider a repower."

Look at it this way. Being stuck somewhere for a few weeks, or shelling out $15k for an insurance policy against that. Save your money if the mechanic blesses the engine.

[exMaggieDrum]

It is easy to understand how an oldie but goodie motor could last many more hours if its critical parts work or are easily replaceable if needed. I have had no problem running my old Ford Lehman with over 12,000 hours on it. I thought about it but worked at a big diesel shop and saw how reliable these motors were.

However, I saw first hand how parts for these reliable "tractor" motors were becoming increasingly impossible to source. I took several of the last parts as spares for my own boat just in case. I inspected and maintained it well. I even had a spare starter that came with the boat from the previous owner, spare fuel pump, injectors, injector lines, a full gasket set, water pump, impeller pump, etc. etc. When I finally had to replace the starter I found out that the spare I had been told was right, the flange did not match so I had to get my current one rebuilt (a relatively easy deal most places).

I contacted every diesel shop in the US and in England to try and line up sources for other items and heard the same story over and over - inventories of many critical parts were running out. That was in 2004. I am sure it is worse now. For sure, there will be someone who will reply and say this is all BS and that they, somehow, have cracked the code and know where you can get any part you need. Somehow, even with my shop connections I was not able to find those. And I have gone through all the cross-referenced "standard" parts I can.

I now have a venerable Perkins 4-108, yet again a "tractor" motor, vintage 1981. I am getting the same story now for the Perkins, from story after story from owners and from shops which specialize in Perkins across the US. Once reliable sources are going dry. I am building as much of a spares kit as I can now just in case. The motor's top end has already been gone through and it was blessed by a mechanic far more skilled than I.

What I wonder is why some people say parts are always available for "tractor" motors when my own experience is exactly the opposite. I cannot speak to the availability of Yanmar parts for a vintage 1GM10, or for other motors. But I would not go out of my way to say that all critical parts are always available for all older motors as some on here seem to be saying. If it were me with another older motor I would spend some time checking with reliable diesel shops/mechanics/parts suppliers which specialize, as in currently or very recently worked on, the particular model in question.

Any one facing this situation would do well to trust, yet verify, on their particular engine, in detail. It only takes ONE critical part that is unavailable to send the engine to the scrap pile. There are workarounds for some items of course, like gasket goo instead of proper gaskets in some cases, and welding can repair some other castings and whatnot. But there isn't a workaround for many parts, especially things like injector pumps that cannot be rebuilt.

Just as already mentioned, even if some parts are not available it may not be a disaster, or even a major inconvenience, if a motor fails and has to be replaced later rather than sooner. But that will have to be a judgement call based on where you are sailing and how far away you might be from self-reliant propulsion or rescue.

As far as resale value added for a new motor, there is something to be said for waiting on replacement, provided it most likely won't fail before you sell it. But it is very hard to sell a boat for anywhere close to its real value with a dead motor that a prospective owner would have to immediately replace.

My home roof is getting close to its end of life, and it will be a significant expense to replace it. I would certainly do it before it was likely to start leaking and my insurance company refuses to insure the house without a replacement. I can sell the house with it but it is easy to get a reliable estimate to replace it by a new owner and it is a common thing. Replacing boat motors can have many unknowns and variable costs so some prospective buyers would just walkaway unless they got a "steal" on the boat.

I just don't buy in to the story that parts are always available just because a motor was based on a tractor/industrial motor initially.

[Wotname]

I've been following this interesting thread and the range of experience seems quite diverse.

Part of the interest stems is because I've considering rebuilding a Yanmar YSE 8 or buying something new.

There seems to be country by country divide as some (many?) have posted about the unavailability of Yanmar parts.

I have priced almost all the main components for a YSE8 (valves, pistons, rings, liners, bearings, gaskets etc) and all are available in Australia. Likewise the venerable 1GM10 is still available new here.

I wonder if the various distributors in different countries only import what they expect the market to buy rather than what is actually being manufactured.

Another example (in new engines) is the case that in the UK, Beta sell 10HP engine (which is apparently a derated 14HP) but this is not available in Australia. The Aussie Beta distributors don't bother and the smallest engine in their line up is the 14HP.

FWIW

[four winds]

There seem to be many truisms thought to be common for Yanmars.

Lack of parts availability is just one of them, ... that I have not experienced.

[a64pilot]

I think though that you are correct, many vehicles for instance were manufactured in Brazil and other countries for pretty much decades after being no longer imported into the US, the Suzuki Samurai for instance, I saw nearly new ones in Indonesia, but they haven't been in the US for nearly 40 years or so?
Once you can no longer pass emissions and or the demand isn't there, you don't stock things you can't sell.
The Yamaha two stroke outboards, how long have they not been available in the US? I assume parts may be difficult to buy there as well, but not so in the Bahamas

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

... the Suzuki Samurai for instance, I saw nearly new ones in Indonesia, but they haven't been in the US for nearly 40 years or so?

Wandering sideways...

The Samurai was a small Jeep-like thing? If so, we had one when we were stationed in Germany back in the early '80s. Sold there as an SJ-410, where the 4 meant a 4-speed gearbox and the 10 meant a 1.0L engine. Great car, for what it was... and I used it to get to hunting sites in the Alps often. I think it would almost climb trees. Kinda loud on the Autobahn, though.

Saw an SJ-513 once. That probably would have been an improvement (I assume 5-spd/1.3L).

-Chris

[exMaggieDrum]

It would be easy to understand that demand, supply, and profits would drive the availability of parts for any sort of engine, whether by country or by individual dealer/rebuilder/supplier. My old company undoubtedly did not try very hard to get rebuild parts for my Ford Lehman. They would rather use that as a selling point for a different brand/model that they sell new (and in the case of a service provider install for a profit - often the most profit in the deal). They do have an incentive to stock parts for older brands in the case they sell that brand's models.

I know some parts for my old Perkins are more readily available in England where they were originally marinized.

But try to get parts for Barient winches!! Granted the original manufacturer went out of business but I have heard that a company took over their assets and designs and was still making parts until a few years ago.

My Apple computer is still going strong and does everything (and more) that I need except the battery came to end of life last month. I wanted an OEM battery and wanted Apple to install it. I called and they said they do not sell any parts for models over 7 years old. I understand that computers are different but the business models are the same. I found an, alleged, OEM battery and installed it myself (easy) so that was a happy ending.

My comments were not meant to address Yanmar's 1GM10 specifically, just that the business models (including country regulations) can make parts unavailable in many cases. Ordering parts from Australia is definitely not cost or time effective for someone in the US. It's great you can get parts there for your engine! I can get parts for my two stroke Yamaha outboard in the US but, as noted above, you can't buy a new one here, and at some point parts will not be easily available here, at least through normal, local, channels. Easy to get in Mexico though where the motors are still being sold.

[Moontide]

Two more cents worth.

If your cruising is just along the US coasts, and maybe Bahamas then I would not repower. Even in the Caribbean you can get engines, some that are not available in the US due to EPA restrictions. Usually regular list price plus some extra for shipping. Carry a couple of (not too expensive) critical parts but other than that you can get a part anywhere in less than 48 hours (Thank you FedEx). If you have a dinghy the outboard would be enough to move you to where you could replace it.

Since you like to sail the Caribbean is perfect for nearly engineless cruising.

A new engine would not be cheap and you may be spending dollars that you may never need to. If it dies down the road replace it then. That small of an engine is easy to do. For the price of a one day car rental I bet you can get one anywhere. Might cost you a week or so of downtime, but if not on a schedule just means you have more time to explore happy hours where ever you are.

A replacement engine is probably small enough to put in the trunk of a car, and any decent mechanic, or DIY, can swap it out. Might cost a little extra to pay an authorized dealer to come do the first start up (usually required for the warranty to be in effect).

Bill

[Shawn67]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Our small boat has a salt water cooled Volvo MD7. The engine was completly rebuilt just before we bought the boat. I think (hope) the rebuild was done well but I did fineness several problems in the reinstall that caused me heartache. The water manifolds need service to keep the passages open. I can not buy an exhaust riser for any reasonable cost and had to make my own. The engine is 2 cylinders and relatively heavy and large. Other than that the engine is a champ. Starts right away and runs reliably.

If you want to get away from the exhaust manifold clogging it is pretty easy to convert the MD7A to fresh water cooling. You just need a heat exchanger and the add on pump for the existing johnson raw water pump (if you have the later version). I bought a used heat exchanger for $200 and about the same for the add on Johnson pump. Pain to change impellers but it worked fine.

Issues with high pressure fuel pumps was something else entirely though... I ended up repowering with an outboard.

Shawn

[rumiko dan]

Cthoops,
We pulled our YSB12 and are repowering with an electric motor.

We have our YSB still, and a lot of parts - new and old. I can make a list for you if you do decide to go with the rebuild. We are in Colorado, so shipping for big stuff is an issue, but not for small stuff.

Let me know if you are interested.

Dan