Fitting a fuel valve solenoid instead of a pull to stop system..

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Why???
Why not just run a cable from the fuel shut off valve to the cockpit with a t handle. When you pull it the engine stops. Foolproof. Simple. Does not rely on your electrical system. Works every time. I am surprised nobody has thought of this before.....
Not all progress is progress.

This is what I replaced because it got harder and harder to push/pull due to corrosion. Unable to find a SS replacement (manual automotive manual choke cable) so went with a Diesel engine fuel shutoff solenoid.

[FionaJC]

I realised man was generic, I just couldnt resist it. Give a kid a sweet ....

[a64pilot]

I am an aircraft mechanic, and a motorcycle mechanic, and a farm mechanic and a automotive mechanic etc, etc.
One thing that pretty much runs true for all those disciplines is that your better off using the systems the manufacturer installed in a manner consistent with their design. In other words operate the fuel shut off lever, whether you do that with a linear actuator, a cable or a solenoid is irrelevant.
Of course if you chose or install an inline solenoid valve to shut down fuel, that’s your decision, they are widely available, I use one for my propane solenoid. Majority of them are normally closed which means if power is lost the engine will shut down. So you need to find a normally open one.
https://ph.parker.com/us/en/parker-2...olenoid-valves

I would prefer one with Viton seals myself, but it’s probably not necessary, they just seem more robust

So far as cables being unreliable. I’m going to go out on a limb and bet your transmission and throttle are cable operated.

[FionaJC]

Originally Posted by Mikado

This is what I replaced because it got harder and harder to push/pull due to corrosion. Unable to find a SS replacement (manual automotive manual choke cable) so went with a Diesel engine fuel shutoff solenoid.

Did you use a fuel line shut off solenoid or a linear actuator to pull the lever. If the former what engine do you have?

[Mikado]

I replaced my fuel shutoff cable on my Perkins 6.354.

I purchased a new tractor fuel shutoff solenoid on EBay for about $40. I made sure that it retracts when energized.

I made a simple but sturdy mounting bracket and attached to the fuel shutoff lever on the engine. I wired it to a momentary push button switch on the helm.

When you push the switch you hear an instantaneous click and the engine stops immediately.

It worked great for a while but suddenly stopped activating the solenoid. After some troubleshooting I realized that the switch was burned out.

I added an inexpensive 12v relay to the circuit and now the assembly seems bulletproof !

Good luck. Jeff

[Clivevon]

"I realised man was generic, I just couldnt resist it. Give a kid a sweet ...."
OK OK, I'll shut up. Good luck with your project anyway.

[FionaJC]

Thank you everyone for your help and opinions. This is probably the most sensible comment which I will go with.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I am an aircraft mechanic, and a motorcycle mechanic, and a farm mechanic and a automotive mechanic etc, etc.
One thing that pretty much runs true for all those disciplines is that your better off using the systems the manufacturer installed in a manner consistent with their design.

Yes I think you are right, it was just a wild thought that it was an easy fix to put something in the fuel line. Ive had the Linear actuator in for a while now, Im just fed up replacing it. The Perkins was designed as a simple engine with a pull to stop lever. I think Ill leave it at that and just marinise the hell out of the next linear actuator I fit.

[Bundyon]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

Thank you everyone for your help and opinions. This is probably the most sensible comment which I will go with.







Yes I think you are right, it was just a wild thought that it was an easy fix to put something in the fuel line. Ive had the Linear actuator in for a while now, Im just fed up replacing it. The Perkins was designed as a simple engine with a pull to stop lever. I think Ill leave it at that and just marinise the hell out of the next linear actuator I fit.

Fi, why not just fabricate a simple bracket to hold a shutoff solenoid, so much better than a linear drive set up. I am in the process of doing this on my Perkins 248 atm. I also have a string running from the shut off lever to just inside my quick access hatch to the E.R. which has worked reliably for years.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

....... Ive had the Linear actuator in for a while now, Im just fed up replacing it. The Perkins was designed as a simple engine with a pull to stop lever. I think Ill leave it at that and just marinise the hell out of the next linear actuator I fit.

Surely you can source a better quality linear actuator???

[Uncle Bob]

Just a thought here, Fiona appears to be referring to a solenoid Valve in the fuel line vs a linear actuator, whereas many others are apparently referring to a solenoid actuated push pull device, which effectively does much the same job as the actuator.
It appears to me that different items are being discussed.
Out of curiosity, does the shut off lever not simply operate a valve of sorts that stops the fuel flow to the hp pump therefore stopping the engine, if so how does a solenoid valve differ in function?

[Compass790]

[QUOTE=FionaJC;3142633]I am afraid everyone seems to be missing my point. I have a manual shut off lever which is a pain. Its for emergencies only. Connected to it is a linear actuator / servo / solenoid. When it is powered it releases the stop lead and the lever moves forward. If the power fails it stays in its last known position either pull or push.


This linear actuator is a PITA. It corrodes over two years. The chinese always send me the wrong one.


My question was, and only one person has answered it so far, can I fit a valve in the fuel line between the lift pump and the injector distributer pump? It is a CAV, Hydraulic governed system.


Reading the spec the governer shuts off the feed on the low pressure side. That's what I would like to do. Just momentarily to stop the engine, or pull the handle in an emergency.[/QUOTE

First off I haven't done it but I can't see why you cant if your governor cuts off the low pressure feed in order to stop it. I believe our cable stop pump cuts off the feed to the inj. pump too but right at the plunger.

I reckon you can try it & see. Can see A64's point about vaccuum possibly being an issue but doubt very much you'll destroy the pump in a trial. The injection pump cant pull much vaccuum anyway or you would have no need for a lift pump.

However I must warn you that I have an experimental bent which doesn't always pan out & I'm not a diesel tech.

I'm interested to see what happens if you try it. I would put the valve as close to the injection pump as practical.
I would like to do the same thing as our cable stop is knackered & I would rather use a switch. Our engine runs for 10mins + if we shut off the tank outlet valve tho ( only 8hp) so there's why I think a shutoff v/v would have to be right by inj. pump
Wotnames suggestion might be easier tho

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

I am afraid everyone seems to be missing my point. I have a manual shut off lever which is a pain. Its for emergencies only. Connected to it is a linear actuator / servo / solenoid. When it is powered it releases the stop lead and the lever moves forward. If the power fails it stays in its last known position either pull or push.


This linear actuator is a PITA. It corrodes over two years. The chinese always send me the wrong one.


My question was, and only one person has answered it so far, can I fit a valve in the fuel line between the lift pump and the injector distributer pump? It is a CAV, Hydraulic governed system.


Reading the spec the governer shuts off the feed on the low pressure side. That's what I would like to do. Just momentarily to stop the engine, or pull the handle in an emergency.

You CAN fit a fuel shutoff valve......NO it will not work well, but it will work and is a feature on several brands of marine ac generator engines. The shutdown will be very slow and because your Perkins 4-107 has a powerful vane pump in the injector pump end housing it will try to pull a negative 14.7 psi and possibly allow the negative pressure to suck in air and make your next start nearly impossible.
The better solution is the plain ol solenoid shown in previous posts and suggested by several wise earlier posters, Perkins actually used a solenoid mounted at the rear of the engine that pulled a wire cable connected to the CAV stop lever on the pump.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Why don't you just replace the servo with a shut off solenoid? When you want to kill the engine, you push a button to energize the solenoid until the engine stops. When there's no power, it returns back to the run position, so unless something goes really bad internally, you'll be able it to start to engine again. It's connected to the injector pump the same way with a cable. Attachment 215261

OP asks a question, some answered directly, and others suggested a better solution. I would not regularly shut off the fuel this way. Possible damage to injector pump if repeated on each shutdown, IMHO. How about a better question - ask what is the best way to remotely shut off the engine, reliably, with components that won't fail every 3 years?
CaptNemo illustrates the best way to do the job electrically. But be sure you know (I'm sure you do) where to reach in and push to stop the lever on the injector pump to stop the engine if the solenoid or it's voltage supply fails. I still have the cable, but I added a piece of wire connected to the stop lever with a little loop on it for a handle that is easy to find, right on top of the injector pump.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

You CAN fit a fuel shutoff valve......NO it will not work well, but it will work and is a feature on several brands of marine ac generator engines. The shutdown will be very slow and because your Perkins 4-107 has a powerful vane pump in the injector pump end housing it will try to pull a negative 14.7 psi and possibly allow the negative pressure to suck in air and make your next start nearly impossible.
The better solution is the plain ol solenoid shown in previous posts and suggested by several wise earlier postersAttachment 215322, Perkins actually used a solenoid mounted at the rear of the engine that pulled a wire cable connected to the CAV stop lever on the pump.

Thanks for this skipperpete. Yes I was worried about slow shutdown. Don't think OP will be trying it & neither will I now. Surprised about the amount of vaccuum in that pump.

[CaptNemoO2]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

This is the same as I have but its a sealed unit with a rod instead of a wire. The problem with a solenoid is that it doesnt have the torque to pull the lever on the injector pump and there is nowhere to fit it. Thats why I have mounted on a bulkhead behind the engine. I was just looking to see if a valve in the fuel ine would do the same job and Im coming to the conclusion it wont.

I have a 4.236 with the Lucas CAV pump, and the stop lever can be operated with one finger. If yours is difficult to operate by hand, I'm not sure if that's normal, and would maybe look into figuring that out first. Mine is set up with a cable in the pull position, so if it ever dies, especially if it seized, I can still sit down the engine. I guess I'm just not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but either way, it looks like you got an answer, which I'm glad you did!

Originally Posted by Mikado

This is exactly what I replaced my fuel shutoff cable with on my Perkins 6.354.

I purchased a new tractor fuel shutoff solenoid on EBay for about $40. I made sure that it retracts when energized.

I made a simple but sturdy mounting bracket and attached to the fuel shutoff lever on the engine. I wired it to a momentary push button switch on the helm.

When you push the switch you hear an instantaneous click and the engine stops immediately.

It worked great for a while but suddenly stopped activating the solenoid. After some troubleshooting I realized that the switch was burned out.

I added an inexpensive 12v relay to the circuit and now the assembly seems bulletproof !

Good luck. Jeff

Yeah, I think mine draws about 3A. Quite a bit of current for a long run to the cockpit. Perkins fit it with a relay in the factory harness.

Originally Posted by waterman46

CaptNemo illustrates the best way to do the job electrically. But be sure you know (I'm sure you do) where to reach in and push to stop the lever on the injector pump to stop the engine if the solenoid or it's voltage supply fails. I still have the cable, but I added a piece of wire connected to the stop lever with a little loop on it for a handle that is easy to find, right on top of the injector pump.

Yes Sir! I can start and stop the engine from the engine compartment. I installed a push button for the starter, though I can't actually turn the ignition on from there, so the alternators, sensors, and what not don't go on. For a while I've been thinking installing a cable pull to just outside the engine compartment so I don't have to open the compartment and reach in to shut down. Makes it easier to tell someone pull that red thing!