Gas in Diesel - help!!

[Ariose]

We have learned a lot through everyone's input and other research we've been doing.

At this point, we're in limbo. Since the marina has promised to "make it right", we are waiting to see what they do/propose, before taking any action on our own. We definitely have no appetite to go the legal route, and until we have evidence otherwise, we are taking them at their word that they will fulfill their promise.

Meanwhile, it's 4 days post incident, and they have yet to arrange pompous of the fuel, and we can only imagine that the solvent effects of the gas is taking a toll with each day. We will definitely update the forum on the outcome.

Thanks, again, everyone for your perspectives. Super helpful.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Comix Bay

I've always thought and been led to believe that "LAWYERS were GOD"

Only Andy Savage in SC if you're a felon or accused of being one.

Sorry for the aside but I see he is in SC also.

[Gary Matthesen]

In a similar experience in Block Island RI, I was handed the nozzle from the dock hand and began to fuel up. I thought it smelled really weird for diesel. As I like to document fuel consumption and build a chart of fuel to depth in tank, I traced the hose back to the pump. That is when I realized I pumped maybe 30 gallons of high test into a 33 gallon tank.
They never asked me to move my boat, which I would have refused to do, even though it was a busy summer day. They pumped me out completely, and refilled with diesel. I never got charged for the fuel (which was intentional on their part)
A year later I came back and joked about the story. They same young guy was working there, now a college senior. Im glad he didn't lose his job, and had fessed up to his mistake.

[Martkimwat]

I believe the injectors on the 3GM are the same as the 1GM and 2GM. They are relatively easy and inexpensive to have serviced (I believe you can even get a kit to doit yourself) I had all three serviced for £90 here in UK when I pulled a 1GM and replaced it with a used but still serviceable 2GM. I did a top overhaul on both before installation of the 2GM and sale of the 1GM. As long as you don't go to extreme adding a percentage of petrol to diesel ( I have been advised 10%) will help to clean the cylinder head and valves as the fuel burns hotter. It's likely that by using it for a prolonged run with a higher percentage may have burnt the injectors and/or valves. I would start with an injector service (easy to remove and replace) and see how it runs after that, then decide if you need to go further down the repair or replace path. A good indication of lack of compression (if the valves are burnt) is how much throttle you need to start. Should start at idle or a small touch of throttle if the compression is good. Yanmar GM series engines are simple and pretty robust.Pretty much any work on them can be carried out by a sensible and competent amateur with a reasonable set of tools and a shop manual which is available online or through the post at reasonable cost. I wouldn't touch much on more modern engines with electronic or common rail systems but the older engines are very straight forward.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Gary Matthesen

In a similar experience in Block Island RI, I was handed the nozzle from the dock hand and began to fuel up. I thought it smelled really weird for diesel. As I like to document fuel consumption and build a chart of fuel to depth in tank, I traced the hose back to the pump. That is when I realized I pumped maybe 30 gallons of high test into a 33 gallon tank.
They never asked me to move my boat, which I would have refused to do, even though it was a busy summer day. They pumped me out completely, and refilled with diesel. I never got charged for the fuel (which was intentional on their part)
A year later I came back and joked about the story. They same young guy was working there, now a college senior. Im glad he didn't lose his job, and had fessed up to his mistake.

It is nice to see a positive story.

[aliddell]

My wife mistakenly filled her 94 Ford Diesel 250 with gas and it stopped. We had it towed to a Ford dealer and they said that we would need a new engine: which we did...$9500. Later I was driving my 97 Ford Diesel 250 hauling a big trailer. It had two tanks and one was filled with gas. Not long after it stopped and I was made aware that one tank had been filled with gas. I assumed that I had ruined the engine. 2000 miles from home on a Sunday a friendly motorist picked me up and got me in touch with a local tow company/auto parts person. He suggested that I switch tanks,remove fuel filter, then crank engine until diesel came into fuel filter canister, install new filter and try it. Truck started up and has been running fine for three more years and 100,000 mile and still going strong. Known of two similar incidents since then with same results. One a Mercedez. Worth a try if you haven't.

[Dave22q]

If you can document your story it is easy. Replace anything that might be damaged on the dime of the marina's insurance company. Get on record with the marina, insurance company, etc. Get written statements before memories go stale. If you lack witnesses and the attendant denies everything it is still well worth suing them. Replacing an engine is not minor.
For future reference, know what your gauges should read and watch them. Their insurance company may argue that you should have avoided some of the damage but I doubt they will prevail.

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by Ariose

We have learned a lot through everyone's input and other research we've been doing.

At this point, we're in limbo. Since the marina has promised to "make it right", we are waiting to see what they do/propose, before taking any action on our own. We definitely have no appetite to go the legal route, and until we have evidence otherwise, we are taking them at their word that they will fulfill their promise.

Meanwhile, it's 4 days post incident, and they have yet to arrange pompous of the fuel, and we can only imagine that the solvent effects of the gas is taking a toll with each day. We will definitely update the forum on the outcome.

Thanks, again, everyone for your perspectives. Super helpful.

Get them on record. even if it's only with a concealed tape recorder. An admission of liability is priceless. Once you have them on record you can relax, play nice guy and be patient. Keep your insurance company fully involved. If you haven't contacted them yet, do so ASAP!

[JPA Cate]

Ariose,

They already should have pumped that out, you should be at the head of the queue! Their delay makes me think you're getting a sweet-talking run-around.

Nothing wrong with recording any further conversations.

Finally, there is another issue here, imho: your old engine was a simple reliable one, and may be again, but beware of new engines, especially if they have electronic checks to do before they fire up, unless you have the knowledge to start it without the electronics. Imagine being unable to start the engine, anchored on a lee shore.... Do check out the Beta, if you have a choice.

If things don't work out with the marina where the fuel was pumped, perhaps it is now time to learn about diesel engines. Get hold of a shop manual, some waterless hand cleaner, and work your own way through it, the two of you. You will also probably be being some new tools. What you learn will stand you in good stead.

If you check via previous CF posts, Sailor Chic 34, did a top end rebuild on her Yanmar, and wrote a thread about it. She is a frugal woman and the job was successful.

Ann

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Ariose

Thanks Bill O & Cheechako.
re: don't we watch when refuelling? Good question. We didn't give the whole story because we thought it would head the post down a tangent, but it's probably a worthwhile tangent to share our mistake and hopefully, others can also learn.

Wow...interesting story. You questioned and questioned again...and were told with certainty that it was diesel...I would have done the same.

My old Pearson 30 originally had an atomic 4 (gas) but was repowered with a Volvo 2002 (diesel). However, the fuel fitting on deck still says GASOLINE. Every time I go to a fuel dock, they raise the alarm because I am asking them to put diesel fuel into a fitting that says GAS...I usually have to sign a waiver before they proceed.

In your case, although you have an expensive repair ahead of you, it sounds like the marina got off easy....what if they had ruined one of those million dollar powerboats? In fact, it would be interesting to hear more of the story of how they realized the mistake, and how many more boats were destroyed before they figured it out.

So I say get the new engine. The downside is lost cruising time. Also, 30hp seems like a lot for an Alberg 30...maybe a more modern engine would be a little smaller and lighter. But avoid Turbos....just my opinion.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Wow...interesting story. You questioned and questioned again...and were told with certainty that it was diesel...I would have done the same.

My old Pearson 30 originally had an atomic 4 (gas) but was repowered with a Volvo 2002 (diesel). However, the fuel fitting on deck still says GASOLINE. Every time I go to a fuel dock, they raise the alarm because I am asking them to put diesel fuel into a fitting that says GAS...I usually have to sign a waiver before they proceed.

In your case, although you have an expensive repair ahead of you, it sounds like the marina got off easy....what if they had ruined one of those million dollar powerboats? In fact, it would be interesting to hear more of the story of how they realized the mistake, and how many more boats were destroyed before they figured it out.

So I say get the new engine. The downside is lost cruising time. Also, 30hp seems like a lot for an Alberg 30...maybe a more modern engine would be a little smaller and lighter. But avoid Turbos....just my opinion.

An interesting question about the labeling on the fill. I can see that happening.

Food for thought. I hope the OP responds on it.

[hamburking]

Aside from colour and smell, is there a quick test that anyone could do to tell the difference between diesel and gasoline?

I would think a touch test would suffice...gas being thin and diesel being oily...but except when changing the filters, I don't usually touch the fuel, so not really that familiar.

I suppose you could splash some on the ground and flick a match at it. The gas would burst into flames, but the diesel would not...needs a burning wick. But thats not the sort of test I would want to do at a fuel dock.

Gas dissolves Styrofoam...a little in a Styrofoam coffee cup might be a reasonable test...but the bottom falling out and spilling the gas all over is again, not a test I'd like to do at the fuel dock.

What about some sort of hydrometer test, like checking the battery fluid?
The cops have all sorts of quick tests for identifying drugs...maybe there could be a quick test for fuel...I might buy it after reading this thread.

[Hunky Dory]

I had this happen twice in my lifetime, both to the same diesel 1 ton. The cost to rebuild at a Ford dealership was over $8000 and that was 15 years ago. In Canada when it gets really cold -40 diesel fuel will jell, truckers add a small amount of gas or fuel anti freeze to thin out the fuel, The mixing of the gas and diesel is fairly rapid with the fuel going rapidly in and the movement of the boat.
The cost to do the repairs was by my liability insurance company, they didn't even go after the gas company even though I had receipts.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Aside from colour and smell, is there a quick test that anyone could do to tell the difference between diesel and gasoline?

I would think a touch test would suffice...gas being thin and diesel being oily...but except when changing the filters, I don't usually touch the fuel, so not really that familiar.

I suppose you could splash some on the ground and flick a match at it. The gas would burst into flames, but the diesel would not...needs a burning wick. But thats not the sort of test I would want to do at a fuel dock.

Gas dissolves Styrofoam...a little in a Styrofoam coffee cup might be a reasonable test...but the bottom falling out and spilling the gas all over is again, not a test I'd like to do at the fuel dock.

What about some sort of hydrometer test, like checking the battery fluid?
The cops have all sorts of quick tests for identifying drugs...maybe there could be a quick test for fuel...I might buy it after reading this thread.

Can't help myself. I can't see any relevance. It is all true but?

[Bill Seal]

Put a few drops on your finger and blow on it. If it evaporates, it's gas. If it evaporates and leaves an oily residue, it's 2-stroke gas.
Simple.