Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

[sabray]

Uhhhh or ugggh sulphur is reduced because its a pollutant. Not cause of legislated idiots. We small consumers are happy to add something to keep the engine happy. Same way we took lead out of gas. Great idea and we make engines that deal with it. Course there is some downer ready. To say we can't change. But we do and it's better

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Maybe it's just Florida, but I doubt it -- but where I am, it is ILLEGAL to buy diesel at a gas station and put it in a boat. That's why they're two different colors. That's how you can be busted.

I think you have that backwards. It's illegal to buy marine diesel (that does not pay road taxes) and put it into a car. Since road diesel is tax paid there's no issue with putting that in your boat. In fact the state probably appreciates the extra revenue.

[delmarrey]

It's the marina managers that don't want you filling up from jerry cans. They worry about spills and if they own the local fuel dock they loose money as well.

[chuckr]

when i did that 4 letter word that starts with a W (work) i ran a couple of trucking companies and worked for sunoco gasoline -- diesel is diesel - the difference is the road tax. Truckers can not use dyed diesel in their tractors but they can use it in the reefer units - if we caught a driver using dyed diesel in their tractor we fired them on the spot - way to much hassel from the feds if caught and they do check -

with my background when i got to a marina for diesel and it was red and the price was more than the highway i complained with little success - the marinas are keeping the tax for themselves -- a profit stream with no work

just my thoughts and opinion
chuck patty and svsoulmates
in trinidad for hurricane season

[hellosailor]

del, NYC is onlyone of many places that just doesn't want civilians using jerry cans for gasoline, because of fire dangers at fueling stations. They want an FDNY approved container, which mainly means a red can instead of an old soda bottle. Most gas stations in NYC don't give a damn, just keep the can in your trunk out of sight and be discreet about it. At a marina float...a little harder to be unseen.<G> But there aren't very many marinas in NYC with fuel docks. Between fire and environmental concerns (leaks from floating tanks) they'd rather just not sell to small craft.

zeehag, when you say the sulphur is there to lubricate "gaskets", I think you mean the engine cylinder RINGS and VALVES. Diesel uses sulphur, gasoline used lead, both pretty much for the same purpose of lubricating metal-on-metal contacts. Not gaskets.

And at least in the US, modern diesel contains way less sulphur than it used to. There's been a lot of concern expressed about how older engines will tolerate this, the same way that old car engines needed to compensate for unleaded gasoline. I have no idea what they pump in Mexico.

[zeehag]

mexico has a petroleum company named PEMEX.

[DeepFrz]

Sorry, more thread drift:
One of the side effects when they lowered the sulfur content of diesel is that some fuel lines and fuel seals started to deteriorate. Perhaps one of the reasons we are seeing more fuel leaks from the HP and lift pumps than we used to.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Assuming you're in Tampa Bay area, can you provide a pointer to this law? It sounds very strange to me.

In fact, the way I read the law, in Florida you can file for a refund for the road tax paid on gas station diesel that you put in your boat.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2012/dr309639.pdf

I had it backwards, I checked at the marina. It is illegal to use diesel fuel in road vehicles. For some reason in Florida, marine diesel and road diesel are taxed at different rates and in different ways. The fuel tax for the road does not go into the same fund as sales tax. Truck drivers apparently routinely file for refunds every three months. It all seems very convoluted to me. At the marina they told me it's OK to have the clear road marina in your boat, but not the pink marine diesel in your commercial truck.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

The facts are, the red fuel being sold at the marrina's does not have the road tax's being applied. That is why it is red. It is the same fuel that farmers us in there tractors, and construction workers use in there diesel equipment that doesn't travel on roads. If you buy dyed fuel and use it in a vehicle that travels on roads, and you get pulled over, they can take a sample of the fuel and bust you for using it. On a boat, if you use road fuel, meaning un dyed fuel, they have no way of telling because the residal dyed fuel will color the undyed fuel. Some marina's have rules that restrict use of jeary can fuel, to prevent its use and will give reasons like potental fuel spills and so forth but bottom line is they want you to buy there fuel. The untaxed dyed fuel is cheaper than road fuel because it dosn't have the taxes applied. Marrina's make more money per gallon selling it, but they also have more expence per gallon, dealing with EPA, and they typically don't sell as much as say a fueling station, so they need to make more per gallon to cover there costs.

That's exactly it. I had it just backwards.

But at least some marinas ban using jerry cans because they are concerned about spills. For instance, the marina a currently live at has that rule, but they do not sell fuel.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I think you have that backwards. It's illegal to buy marine diesel (that does not pay road taxes) and put it into a car. Since road diesel is tax paid there's no issue with putting that in your boat. In fact the state probably appreciates the extra revenue.

i did have it backwards.

[bobconnie]

Ahh It must be great to be young, and not remember when there was Diesel in serveral grades, No 1 ( kerosene, stove oil) no2 red diesel with sulfer, No 3 came in many colors red yellow and clear, and No 4 or Dark diesel, which was used in most commercial fishing boats, and some cruisers with older diesel engines, it had more lube oil in the diesel and more sulfer, but was way cheaper !! and we NEVER paid road tax and the price was lower if ya bought more !! if ya bought less then 100 gals, ya paid full price, over 100 to 200 or 250 gals, 10%less and so on with more gals the price went down !! AHHH Things sure changed in 20 30 years !! I chringed at the price I was givein in Texas to put about 500 gals in our new to us ketch!! I will make the trip on the 300 + gals thats aboard ( what the heck I just had it cleaned anyway) No discount to larger gallonage! O well things change and seldom for better !! O and I almost forgot there was Bunker fuel to !!LOL

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by sabray

Uhhhh or ugggh sulphur is reduced because its a pollutant. Not cause of legislated idiots. We small consumers are happy to add something to keep the engine happy. Same way we took lead out of gas. Great idea and we make engines that deal with it. Course there is some downer ready. To say we can't change. But we do and it's better

Only by removing the sulphur is the next generation of clean diesels possible. The sulphur would poison the emissions control system (the catalytic converters etc.)

As I'm on my third week with a new VW Passat TDI this is of particular interest to me. So far, 35mpg around town and 50 highway - and it drives WAY better than any hybrid.

[Passage50]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

So what you are telling me, is, there is no differance between marine diesel and over the road diesel except the color? If that is true I am very excited to here it.

May I ad this,
Stove Fuel is also just regular Diesel but a dye colour aded so the Tax Man can houl you into court if you burn it in anything using a public road.

As allways is just about the Money.

[CC45]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I had it backwards, I checked at the marina. It is illegal to use diesel fuel in road vehicles. For some reason in Florida, marine diesel and road diesel are taxed at different rates and in different ways. The fuel tax for the road does not go into the same fund as sales tax. Truck drivers apparently routinely file for refunds every three months. It all seems very convoluted to me. At the marina they told me it's OK to have the clear road marina in your boat, but not the pink marine diesel in your commercial truck.

and as the red dye goes, it does stain the inside of your tanks and engine parts. that dye is a very concentrated powder form. we use 4-10 teaspoons full in 1800 gals to dye it. if we picked up clear, non dyed, road use and need to deliver red dye off road non taxed depending where you live, we would put some in and deliver. this stuff will dye clothing.

[tkeithlu]

Older diesels, such as the Detroit diesel 3/4/6-53, will run on just about any oil as long as it's filtered. I've known owners who pour their waste oil into the tank when they do an oil change.