Gasoline as a Diesel Stablizer

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

In my boat that would possibly be an issue as the diesel fill is on the cockpit sole...
On many boats with deck fills i doubt it would be a problem...talking small percentage of 'petrol' in the diesel.

In the mid 80's the end of the fueling jetty at Williamstown, Vic was destroyed together with the refueling powerboat when someone pressed the flush button in the head while fueling.

Likewise my diesel filler is on the cockpit sole. I prefer that to a location washed with seawater. Nothing's perfect.
Alternator and starter sparks, light switches, etc etc are all possible sources of ignition in the right fume / air mix.

Sounds like that was a Royal Flush. Was it Aces or Hearts?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

.....

Sounds like that was a Royal Flush. Was it Aces or Hearts?

Dunno but I reckon she may have singed her whiskers...

[captain58sailin]

My fills are on the outside of the cabin, but the sounding tubes are inside. I keep the doors open and the stove off. I only burn diesel, would not consider putting gasoline in my fuel tanks at any mixture. I once had a fuel dock attendant wrongly put gasoline into one of my fuel tanks and it ruined a generator, granted the mixture was stronger than the OPs mentioned amount, but why introduce that variable into your program? Put it in a car and be done with it. All the sniping about someone's credentials is inappropriate it is an easy way to start an argument which takes away from the exchange of real information don't sit and throw stones at people you don't even know. If you can produce information that counters the poster's claims then do so.

[Sun and Moon]

It seems that most of what I read on the Internet is complete trash. But every once in a while I learn something that makes all the wasted time worthwhile. Thanks, Thinwater, for the info you've posted. I doubt anyone will care if Trim blows himself up, but perhaps you've saved someone else from following in his footsteps.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Copper and zinc are notorious for catalyzing polymerization reactions in diesel and gasoline. EVERY engine manufacture has installation instructions forbidding the use of zinc or copper alloys. Boat builders don't listen.

Sail Delmarva: Are We the Cause of Fuel Breakdown?

I not doubting your information however I wonder what has changed - perhaps in fuel chemistry in recent years.

My British tractor has a OEM galvanised fuel tank (diesel) and that has been performing fine for 48 years now and I just had a look inside and the zinc seems to be holding up fine - along with the diesel. Maybe I will experiencing a problem soon.

I did have a 50's NZ built boat that had a copper fuel tank (also diesel) and didn't have any fuel issues for the 5 years that I had it but that was 25 years back.

Maybe it is worse if one has a lot of water in the mix

Presumably the copper washers under the banjo bolts that Yanmar use don't provide enough surface area for the copper to cause an issue???

[four winds]

Was not aware copper could be an issue, other than vibration causing cracks.

My 78 model boat has a factory monel tank, still in excellent condition, with fuel feed line and vent line both made of copper. These lines also appear to be in good condition.

I'll have to re-read the posts, do some research, and see if I can understand the issue. May have to consider a change of the lines.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

I was refuelling a car in Oregon recently and was told it is a regulation that an attendant has do the refilling. I don't know the details but maybe for that sort of reason and cell phones?

State law for giving the logging industry (union) an opportunity for employment after legislation dramatically reduced the logging industry... and therefore jobs... Source of info was an Oregon resident...

[HappyMdRSailor]

SO doing simple numbers and utilizing the data given by Evans (thank you!)...

150+200g = 350 with 10g gas = 2.85%

Rounding the figure to 3% and believing the data... means the flash point was lowered from:

55c/131f

to

20c/68f

????

That my friends would scare the bahjeezus outta me...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I not doubting your information however I wonder what has changed - perhaps in fuel chemistry in recent years.

My British tractor has a OEM galvanised fuel tank (diesel) and that has been performing fine for 48 years now and I just had a look inside and the zinc seems to be holding up fine - along with the diesel. Maybe I will experiencing a problem soon.

I did have a 50's NZ built boat that had a copper fuel tank (also diesel) and didn't have any fuel issues for the 5 years that I had it but that was 25 years back.

Maybe it is worse if one has a lot of water in the mix

Presumably the copper washers under the banjo bolts that Yanmar use don't provide enough surface area for the copper to cause an issue???

Time, temperature, and surface area matter. Water in the fuel, even ppm levels, matter. The engine makers primary concern is for generators, where the fuel may sit in the tank for long periods of time. So if you use the fuel within a few months, keep the diesel dry, and minimize the amount of copper and zinc (washers, for example, will have a tiny exposed area), you will have no problems.

On the other hand, if the fuel sits for the off season (or in some cases years), there is water in the tank, and copper fuel lines are used, the fuel will begin to get dark and potentially sludgy.

However, the refiners add special corrosion inhibitors targeting brass and copper, often referred to as metal deactivators. The doses are really too low for long-term storage, and some after market additives do an excellent job of stopping corrosion and subsequent fuel deterioration. However, not all fuel "stabilizers" do this.

Additives vs. Gum, Sludge - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

That my friends would scare the bahjeezus outta me...

Once again, for the people in the cheap seats...combustion is not a single variable reaction. It does not only depend on temperature. It actually has a lower limit and an upper limit that depends on partial pressures of fuel, air and even water. The chemistry and physics of combustion are far more complex than anyone here can imagine.

But hell...be scared...everyone seems to be scared of everything these days.

[Trim50]

Note to self....

Add Diesel fuel to the list with guns, global warming and mono hulls vs cats as subjects that aren't worth discussing on this forum.

[estarzinger]

Just for reference:

"The flash point of a volatile material is the lowest temperature at which it can vaporise to form an ignitable mixture in air. Measuring a flash point requires an ignition source. At the flash point, the vapor may cease to burn when the ignition source is removed.

The flash point is not to be confused with the autoignition temperature (which does not require an ignition source) or with the fire point (the temperature at which the vapor continues to burn after being ignited).

Neither the flash point nor the fire point is dependent on the temperature of the ignition source, which is much higher."

"It is also used to characterize the fire hazards of liquids. Liquids which have a flash point less than 37.8 or 60.5 °C (100.0 or 140.9 °F), depending on the standard that is used, are called flammable — whereas liquids having a flash point above that temperature are called combustible."

[TheBestAnchor]

Originally Posted by Trim50

The chemistry and physics of combustion are far more complex than anyone here can imagine.

Please, this speaks volumes....What was the question?

[SniperSailor]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Note to self....

Add Diesel fuel to the list with guns, global warming and mono hulls vs cats as subjects that aren't worth discussing on this forum.

To bad they removed the rest of your reply...hilarious.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Note to self....

Add Diesel fuel to the list with guns, global warming and mono hulls vs cats as subjects that aren't worth discussing on this forum.

I'm confused:
- Some people like mono and some cat
- Some like guns and some don't.
- Some people believe in man made global warming and other don't think there is a measurable impact.

Those subjects are open to debate as there are opposing view points.

So far everone says it's a bad idea to dump 10 gal of gas in a 200 gal diesel tank and they give many reasons. No one has suggested it's a good idea...except for you.