grey stuff instead of oil

[four winds]

Generally speaking, in any engine the areas where oil is present and the areas where water is present are seperate but in close proximity to each other.

There are several ways this seperation can be compromised.

For example a defect in a head gasket can allow cooling water into a cylinder from the passage where water flows between the block and head. Usually located in the narrow space between cylinders where heat is most prevalent and available to be carried away by the cooling water.

[four winds]

Is your water pump mounted in the engine block?

Or external to the engine?

Sorry I only really know my Yanmar well.

[DeepFrz]

I believe its an external water pump.

[four winds]

Sorry to carpet bomb your thread but I have one last thought.

An Eaz-Out is a notoriously brutal tool, creating high expansion force.

If you caused a crack around where the broken sender was removed it would difficult to see even if you were looking for it.

And since troubleshooting processes suggest the area or thing last worked are often the route cause of a new problem a good thorough inspection of the area around the new plug is in order.

So maybe clean this area well and inspect for a barely visible hairline crack. Heat expansion while running could open this crack enough for water under pressure to pass.

There could be an oil passage in close proximity to the water passages in this area.

[DeepFrz]

I still don't understand what is happening when you try to start the engine. Does it turn over or not? If not then you probably have a water lock in one of your cylinders. Do you have compression release levers on that engine? If so, pull the compression release levers and turn the engine over by hand to see if water comes out of one of the cylinders.

You will have to be very clear as to what happens when you are talking to us otherwise we are just playing 20 questions and that is very frustrating.

[arecuk]

Originally Posted by four winds

Is your water pump mounted in the engine block?Or external to the engine?

water pump is mounted on the engine block, see the yellow plate on attached photo (ilustrative example of my VP 2002)

[four winds]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I believe its an external water pump.

I suspected so. Which led to thinking about my last post instead.

Best of luck to the OP.

[DeepFrz]

Ah, okay, so its gear driven instead of belt driven. That could then be a way for water to enter the engine.

[four winds]

Ah. Maybe two posibilities.

1- bad seal on on water pump shaft.

2- crack in block around new plug in sender hole.

[shufti]

Bad seals on water pump shaft caused same thing on my volovo penta TAMD41A. There are (on mine) a couple of small 'inspection holes' on the shaft casing - these holes will dribble water when the seals go. Is that where you're water leak was?

[Neptune's Gear]

There are two oil seals on that water pump, the inner (engine side) one being the oil seal, and the outer being the sea water seal. There is a gap between with a plastic frame. Normally, one seal would leak, and make it obvious which one to change. Because of the gap between the seals being there to allow any leak to drain out, it is very unlikely that it is leaking water passed the water seal and then also passed the oil seal.

There is both an oil pressure sender and a water temp sender in the top left of the front of the engine (can't remember if it's in the head or the block). If you drilled through one of these and damaged the metal behind the sender thread, it could well produce the symptoms you have. And if so, the engine may be not worth repair. It is approaching 30 years old, and parts are becoming harder to get... :-(

[NoTies]

I've seen more than a few Volvos get water in the oil because of this reprehensively neanderthral water pump sealing arrangement. The tell tale holes are subject to block with belt dust etc. and force the water past the oil seal the wrong way.

[jimbunyard]

Am under the impression that you have a seawater cooled engine, not a freshwater cooled, from your previous question about the broken off sending unit and water leaking when it was broken off. If you do you may have either punched through a cylinder wall (or other area allowing water ingress to the crank case) while removing the stub, or it could have rusted through on its own, or it could have been a combination of both.

I think there are 2 water pumps on this engine, neither of which appear to be mounted directly to the engine block, so that eliminates them as a source of water. Even if either of yours are, typically water pumps are designed for water to flow out of them, not into the crankcase, when seals fail.

Is this is the recirculation pump?




And this the raw water pump?





If you have an oil cooler, that is also a potential source but I don't think a 2002 does. There are many more sources, but it's good to start from the original scene of the crime...

[jimbunyard]

Please disregard the part about 2 water pumps in post #28, I was too late in catching my error to edit it correctly. Sorry about that.


The post should read:


Am under the impression that you have a seawater cooled engine, not a freshwater cooled, from your previous question about the broken off sending unit and water leaking when it was broken off. If you do you may have either punched through a cylinder wall (or other area allowing water ingress to the crank case) while removing the stub, or it could have rusted through on its own, or it could have been a combination of both.




There is a gap between seals 9 and 15 that allows water to drain to the bilge when the water side seal fails. It is conceivable that if the oil seal were to fail coincidentally with the water seal, water could enter the timing gear cover and crankcase, but I think it more likely that oil would leak out.

If you have an oil cooler, that is also a potential source but I don't think a 2002 does. There are many more sources, but it's good to start from the original scene of the crime...

[NoTies]

As I said, the tell tales between water and oil spaces have a tendancy to block up with belt dust etc. which allows water to go past the oil seal which is designed to seal from the oil side and is not capable of sealing from the water/telltale side. A typical cheap engine problem.