Is it enough?

[SUSailor]

In looking at the Tohatsu's they have the 6hp 20" long shaft and the 6hp 20" Long Shaft Sail Pro. There is about $100 difference between the two. Does anyone know the difference between the two?

[Shawn67]

5"s, the Sailpro (25" shaft) also comes standard with the alternator (6 amp max output) and the high thrust elephant ears prop. It used to be that those were options in the other engines. Don't know if that is still the case.

The high thrust prop is the one you want.

Shawn


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[SUSailor]

OK thanks. That clears it up.

This is the one I was looking at. My old two stroke has a 20" shaft so I thought that it would be long enough on the new one.

Tohatsu 6hp Four-Stroke Outboard Model MFS6CSPROL

Would I be better off with a 25" instead?

I love the fact that it comes standard with the alternator. That will be great back up to my solar set up for keeping the batteries charged.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I have a Bristol 27 which weighs about twice as much as your Santana 22 and I have a 5 hp 4 stroke Mercury with the 25" extra long shaft. It has the same prop as the ones used on a dinghy
....

I've used that engine to motor 18 miles or so across the lower Chesapeake also when the conditions are right.

It's not when the conditions are right that the outboard matters, it is when you are in trouble that it counts. A prop that cavitates and only allows you to transfer half your availble HP to the water is going to be a problem. Try pushing your boat into a 30knot headwind with short choppy waves and see what happens. I suspect you'll go backwards while the prop makes a bubbles at the stern.

Matt

[tenchiki]

I have a Yankee Dolphin 24 on San Francisco Bay. The boat came with a Yamaha 8hp 4stroke high-thrust OB. It is serious overkill.I do over 5knts into a stiff headwind at less than 1/2 throttle. And I'm dragging this huge prop under sail since the OB doesn't kick up (in a well). I practically leave a rooster tail at WOT. Much larger boats than mine use smaller OBs.
I'd go for the smaller motor if you don't keep yours.

[BriaF]

I have a Honda generator as well BRILLIANT
But Honda 5hp outboards do not have a good rep
Difficult to start this may have been fixed ????????
but I would not take the chance.

Tohatsu out boards are good I'm on my third 3.5hp
But I would buy the Mercury which is a tohatsu, because it
has better ancillaries ie. The tiller - engine cowling
Possibly a better warranty
Check this out for yourself.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GILow

It's not when the conditions are right that the outboard matters, it is when you are in trouble that it counts. A prop that cavitates and only allows you to transfer half your availble HP to the water is going to be a problem. Try pushing your boat into a 30knot headwind with short choppy waves and see what happens. I suspect you'll go backwards while the prop makes a bubbles at the stern.

Matt

When my boat had the diesel, I could make about 1-2 knots against an 18-20mph headwind with choppy bay waves. My outboard does about the same.

Once I had to run the engine (outboard) while also sailing/tacking against a strong headwind to leave a small harbor. The channel was very narrow also.

Point is I didn't see much difference between the (40 year old) diesel and the outboard.

I sailed maybe 25 miles Sunday am. I got up at 0410 to catch the morning SW Wind. (left anchorage when it was light enough to see the channel markers as I was miles up a very shallow creek) That SW Wind held to within a mile or so of my destination. I also motor sailed maybe the last couple hours for better pointing to hold my mark which I could see 10+ miles out ......because the conditions were right.

The wind was SW the morning before but slowly rotated SE and increased to about 15 knots so I wanted to beat that as the forecast was similar.

You have to know your boat and know the conditions. If the wind had been heavy SE, I would have had to make an entirely new plan. I would have been pinned in a bit and would have had to sail away from my destination at first to gain leverage.

These are just the things you have to deal with on a $2,000 sailboat with a $1,500 engine that doesn't point well but can handle relatively rough conditions.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

These are just the things you have to deal with on a $2,000 sailboat with a $1,500 engine that doesn't point well but can handle relatively rough conditions.

Sure, we all have to compromise to some level.

But if you were setting out to buy a new outboard tomorrow, and there was no significant cost difference, why wouldn't you buy the one with the propeller suited to the task? Pusher props, high thrust props, elephant ear props (I like that one, never heard it before but it works for me) are better suited to sailing boats than their "dinghy" cousins.

When the proverbial pooh hits the air circulation device you want all the grip on the water you can get.

Matt

[Shawn67]

"Would I be better off with a 25" instead?"

It gives you more options. For having the prop the same depth in the water the power head would be 5" higher. That may be easier to reach the gear shifter or help in the angle of the pull starter. Or keeping the power head at the same height you have the prop 5" deeper. That would be an advantage in choppy weather.

The thing you would also want to consider is if you can get the 25" shaft out of the water while sailing and storing it. On my Compac it was a combination of raising the Garelick motor mount as well as tilting the engine and then it was all the way out.

Shawn

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GILow

Sure, we all have to compromise to some level.

But if you were setting out to buy a new outboard tomorrow, and there was no significant cost difference, why wouldn't you buy the one with the propeller suited to the task? Pusher props, high thrust props, elephant ear props (I like that one, never heard it before but it works for me) are better suited to sailing boats than their "dinghy" cousins.

When the proverbial pooh hits the air circulation device you want all the grip on the water you can get.

Matt

The prop on the diesel was very "flat" and didn't seem to help. The 25" extra long shaft outboard came with the standard prop and worked as well as the diesel so I didn't replace it.

But I'm a sailor .............with a boat that I paid $2,000 for. I can usually get out of the ***** when it hits the fan due to 15 years on racing sailboats without engines, sitting on the start line with 25 other boats and holding for a minute or two without touching etc.

If I get into trouble, I'll run it aground before damaging another boat, property etc. I also believe it can handle being abused.

My boat is worth much more than the $2,000 I paid for it but it was an estate sale.


My 5hp 4 Stroke Extra Long Shaft Mercury works fine on my Bristol 27. I'm thinking it would be fine on a Santana 22:


http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=223


http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=521

[Hudson Force]

I've a four stroke 5hp "Flying Green Duck" that suits me well.



Actually, this is a great performing Tohatsu! Someone once told me that I was trying to hide my cheap purchases with my personal logo replacing the manufacturer's stickers. I'm just not one to favor carrying advertising on my property. That's why I have the "Flying Green Duck" on my Ampair.



I've had an Evinrude, a Mercury, a Honda, an Elgin, and a couple of Yamahas over the years, but the Tohatsu has been the best!

[Shawn67]

Regarding the standard prop vs the high thrust....

With the standard prop you may want to see what rpm you reach at wide open throttle. It is possible ( and likely based on other threads) that the engine won't be getting up to max rpm. If that is the case the engine isn't making max power and apparently they vibrate and shake a bit more when they are run like that. The high thrust prop allows the engine to get to max rpm on a displacement hull and deliver all of its power.

Btw, Tohatsu has two different 6" pitch props for the 6hp engine. The 6" pitch prop and then the model that comes on the Sailpro which some Tohatsu dealers call the elephant ears version. From testing I saw in another thread they perform differently and the elephant ears version is the better one to have. The testing was all done by someone with the 6hp with standard prop on a 26' (I think) sailboat who was very unhappy with the lack of performance. He tried the 6" pitch and then the elephant ears (measuring max rpm with each) and saw a big improvement with the elephant ears.

Shawn


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[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Shawn67

Regarding the standard prop vs the high thrust....

With the standard prop you may want to see what rpm you reach at wide open throttle. It is possible ( and likely based on other threads) that the engine won't be getting up to max rpm. If that is the case the engine isn't making max power and apparently they vibrate and shake a bit more when they are run like that. The high thrust prop allows the engine to get to max rpm on a displacement hull and deliver all of its power.

Btw, Tohatsu has two different 6" pitch props for the 6hp engine. The 6" pitch prop and then the model that comes on the Sailpro which some Tohatsu dealers call the elephant ears version. From testing I saw in another thread they perform differently and the elephant ears version is the better one to have. The testing was all done by someone with the 6hp with standard prop on a 26' (I think) sailboat who was very unhappy with the lack of performance. He tried the 6" pitch and then the elephant ears (measuring max rpm with each) and saw a big improvement with the elephant ears.

Shawn


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I never run my engine at max. I usually run it between 1/4-2/3 throttle. (sometimes 3/4 in calm water) It does much better like this. My old racing partner on his Alberg 30 had the atomic four engine and we would come back in the creek at about the same speed.

In rough conditions, my 5 hp outboard isn't going to do too much anyway with my 6700 lb displacement boat (plus supplies, water, beer, fuel etc) so I use the sails with the engine or make another plan.

My first 5 sailboats had no engines so I received lots of training on them during multiple 100 mile distance races and on calm days when the wind dropped.

The worst days though are after a blow when the wind drops but the waves do not.

[SUSailor]

Originally Posted by tenchiki

I have a Yankee Dolphin 24 on San Francisco Bay. The boat came with a Yamaha 8hp 4stroke high-thrust OB. It is serious overkill.I do over 5knts into a stiff headwind at less than 1/2 throttle. And I'm dragging this huge prop under sail since the OB doesn't kick up (in a well). I practically leave a rooster tail at WOT. Much larger boats than mine use smaller OBs.
I'd go for the smaller motor if you don't keep yours.

What length of shaft is yours?

My 22 sits fairly low at the waterline. I fully agree that the longer shaft would sit lower in the water and it would seem that lower would be better in rough conditions. What concerns me is whether a 25" would be too long to get it fully out of the water when it was not needed.

[Cheechako]

4 or 5 hp is enough for the light Santana 22. As mentioned though, if buying new, see if a low HP kicker is available with the big prop/ high thrust version. Problem is, that motor may cost as much as your boat is worth. They can be had with tilt and shifting etc also.